Lawyer who publically shamed law partner on Linkedin

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NorthcoteLuvvie
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Lawyer who publically shamed law partner on Linkedin

Postby NorthcoteLuvvie » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:09 am

Hi Everyone
I've been thinking a lot about this story over the last few days and knowing that there are many female lawyers on NVN I wanted to see what others thought.

Most of you will have seen the story this week about the older law partner who called a young barrister's photo "hot" on being sent a linkedin invitation by her.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... world.html

I'm not condoning what he wrote, to be clear I want to say again I'm not condoning it, but does anyone else feel uncomfortable that it's a massive over reaction or am I simply out of touch?

Not wanting to start an online spat but genuinely interested in what others are thinking.

Thanks

NCL
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MVCC
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Re: Lawyer who publically shamed law partner on Linkedin

Postby MVCC » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:13 am

I don't think it's an over-reaction. Sexism and gender inequality are still rife in this country (along with many other forms of discrimination). We've had legislation for years designed to try and stamp it out and many people being very vocal in their attempts to stop others being sexist etc but it's still happening. If it takes a few incidents like this to make people think a bit before they act/ speak and change their ways then good and I'd say Charlotte Proudman has gone a little way to achieving what she so clearly wants to achieve.
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sid_seal
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Re: Lawyer who publically shamed law partner on Linkedin

Postby sid_seal » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:26 am

It's a tricky one.
It's unacceptable for some people to think they can get away with any remarks they want with the excuse that "they are old school" and "they don't put a filter to their mouths" and "in my days there wasn't any such thing as political correctness" (sorry, I can't believe a lawyer is incapable of telling where he should stop).
But I wouldn't want to live in a place where a man cannot even smile at, or pay an innocent compliment to, a female colleague for fear of being accused of harassment. And I am saying it from the point of view of a woman who works in a predominantly male environment!
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AbbevilleMummy
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Re: Lawyer who publically shamed law partner on Linkedin

Postby AbbevilleMummy » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:34 am

I agree that it's an over-reaction and a successful attempt at raising her public profile.

I do agree with her that sexism is still rife, however I don't think his comment was sexist. Flirtatious and inappropriate for a married man, yes, but not sexist. In the same way that a married woman flirting over Linked In wouldn't be considered sexist.

Sexism exists in the workplace when women do not progress as fast as men or are paid less. Flirting and commenting on appearance happens both way rounds. In my office, the guys would often comment if I was looking nice one day, had a new dress on or something. It was nice to be noticed for the effort I had put in to mask the fact that I had been up all night with one of the kids! And I would also pay one of the guys a compliment on a new suit etc. it works both ways.

In my opinion, exaggerated political correctness and over-reactions like this just damage the debate over sexism and cause men to roll their eyes and believe that women are too emotional and just over-react at the slightest thing. And when that happens, they ignore the real issues over pay and opportunity equality.
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MVCC
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Re: Lawyer who publically shamed law partner on Linkedin

Postby MVCC » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:57 am

Anyone who thinks he was just being flirtatious doesn't understand the man. He called his own daughter "hot" FFS. I reckon he knew exactly what he was doing and had absolutely read her profile before deciding to provoke her. Sad excuse of a man. Hopefully others will learn that that kind of behaviour just isn't on.
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AbbevilleMummy
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Re: Lawyer who publically shamed law partner on Linkedin

Postby AbbevilleMummy » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:16 am

That's an interesting point... I hadn't considered that he might have done it to intentionally provoke her and get a rise out of her. But then if that is the case, why take the bate? Isn't she playing into his hands? Before this, she had a strong voice, now people are questioning whether she isn't a little over the top? Maybe that is why he did it? Knowing she would bite and discredit her a little? Although this is probably giving him too much credit now!

I do find his comment on his daughter's FB wall more than a little odd! Can't imagine my father as ever describing me as "hot". I cringe at the thought...
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supergirl
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Re: Lawyer who publically shamed law partner on Linkedin

Postby supergirl » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:28 am

I m no lawyer but i am mother to two (gorgeous) girls.

I only wish more woman would speak up. To me this is unacceptable.

While on holidays we were walking back from dinner with our 2 dsughters. I m holding the hand of both of them and are having a lovely chat, my husband is in front of us. Out of the blue a man spank my bottom. I shouted at him to stop and how unacceptable this is, and if he hadnt instantly, i think my husband would have turned red.

Then the inevitable followed. A gazillion questions from my 2 daughters. The good that came out of it was that we had an interesting conversation. So i hope they ll know how to set boundaries.

So for me this is not an overreaction. I would have probably not shame him publicly but i would have definitively replied to him to tell him that it is utterly unacceptable and expecting apologies.
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papinian
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Re: Lawyer who publically shamed law partner on Linkedin

Postby papinian » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:30 am

I do not know whether it is true, but I have read that this started with the barrister sending a LinkedIn invite to the solicitor, with whom she was not already acquainted. This puts a rather different complexion on things as it is the barrister that has initiated contact and the solicitor that is replying.

I would never send a message to anyone referring to their stunning photo on LinkedIn or anywhere else. However, there are some aspects of the message from the barrister that are unnecessary, e.g. referring to the solicitor's age. There is a good comment on this by Milo Yiannopoulos (a gay man so relatively unbiased): "I suspect that if the male lawyer looked like George Clooney, Ms. Proudman wouldn’t be complaining. But you’re not supposed to say that, are you."

Generally, the female lawyers I have discussed this with are more critical of the barrister than the male ones are.

I do think this case is very different from the appalling behaviour that supergirl refers to. I'm a bit aghast that people have so lost the run of themselves that a message referring to a woman's stunning photo is being equated with sexual assault.
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NorthcoteLuvvie
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Re: Lawyer who publically shamed law partner on Linkedin

Postby NorthcoteLuvvie » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:40 am

While on holidays we were walking back from dinner with our 2 dsughters. I m holding the hand of both of them and are having a lovely chat, my husband is in front of us. Out of the blue a man spank my bottom.
that is awful.

I am torn between thinking that without zero tolerance we won't change behaviour and pity for those who are in this situation (as in the older solicitor) and are so horribly publically shamed by something which some may see as relatively innocuous.

I know that "relatively innocuous" is a moot point but I think you know what I mean
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emmajones2013
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Re: Lawyer who publically shamed law partner on Linkedin

Postby emmajones2013 » Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:47 pm

Maybe it's just me, but if you look at the LinkedIn photo and compare them with the other two, she looks very slightly different.

Maybe it's clever lighting or maybe a bit of photoship but her face looks slimmer and her mouth wider on LI. If she didn't want people to notice her, why would you have that done tho?

Maybe this is her way of telling everyone that she's been complimented on her looks ;)
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Jen66
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Re: Lawyer who publically shamed law partner on Linkedin

Postby Jen66 » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:27 pm

Charlotte Proudman is totally milking this.

She approached him, not the other way around. His response to her was out of order and unprofessional she was right to pull him up on it - although the wording of her email to him was totally bonkers.

He apologised swiftly and that should have been the end of it.

He said that he liked her picture. that's all.
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liverbird in london
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Re: Lawyer who publically shamed law partner on Linkedin

Postby liverbird in london » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:34 pm

Yes, his comment was not called for, and would certainly raise an eyebrow - not least because it's just an odd thing to write. But to put it in the "same box" as being slapped on the bottom by some stranger is over the top.

I think Ms Proudman's decision to bring this puerile exchange to the attention of the world makes her look petty and immature - not attributes that I would seek in a lawyer.
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Herculesmum
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Re: Lawyer who publically shamed law partner on Linkedin

Postby Herculesmum » Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:07 pm

I think the partner is a dinosaur and considering this exchange was on linked in it was completely unnaceptable unless he sends similar comments to male linked in contacts (I suspect not). I hope he is called to account by his firm for potentially damaging their reputation.

Her response was OTT and to then post it on social media I think has undermined the key message.

It's a tough one though. Had she politely rebuked him, it would lead to an insincere apology and no real change. Had she played along or ignored the remark she would probably have had a boost for her career but for the entirely wrong reason. By taking the very vocal high road she comes across as attention seeking and the message gets lost.

Really no win no matter how she responded.
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firsttimerSW11
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Re: Lawyer who publically shamed law partner on Linkedin

Postby firsttimerSW11 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:17 pm

Personally, I've been complimented a few times on my LinkedIn picture. Truth be known, I've always taken it for what it is, a compliment. Maybe I need to start taking more offence!
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NorthcoteLuvvie
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Re: Lawyer who publically shamed law partner on Linkedin

Postby NorthcoteLuvvie » Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:12 pm

Thanks MM and everyone else, I find this fascinating.

I am torn between horror that he responded in such a way and feeling that she's "miked" this to raise her own media profile and a little part of me wonders whether it was a trap that she set to goad him. Don't get me wrong, I think it was horribly sexist but I just can't help but feel there is some manipulation.

On the other hand, manipulation or not, you can't respond in that way as it is pretty horrid.

@MM, it's strange your comment about "our daughters" made it feel all the more real, if I had an ambitious daughter and she reached out to various lawyers for advice career help then I'd feel very very uncomfortable with her getting those replies so I guess I'm back full circle and he's guilty!

:-)
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