Paying for childcare cash in hand - what's the view?

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Aprilmama
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Paying for childcare cash in hand - what's the view?

Postby Aprilmama » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:26 pm

All

A previous nanny of mine is going onto another job where they are insisting on paying her half her salary above board and half cash in hand (total £400 npw). She has queried this but they are not budging. I know that this often happens but in circumstances where the nanny is thereby denied her true NI and pensions contribution isn't this very unfair on her (especially where workplace pensions are now mandatory (unless opted out of))? If these individuals were offered the same in their jobs would they accept it?? What's the view? The nanny is obviously in a difficult position because so many other nannies are happy to accept such an arrangement / don't have a choice whether to accept it or not.

Interested to hear your thoughts!
SW12Pops
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Re: Paying for childcare cash in hand - what's the view?

Postby SW12Pops » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:06 pm

Totally unreasonable.

She shouldn't take the job.

I know it isn't always this easy but she should, ideally, also 'not budge' and refuse to take the job AND write to the HMRC.

It's the only way to get this stamped out.
tooposhtopush
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Re: Paying for childcare cash in hand - what's the view?

Postby tooposhtopush » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:51 am

Out of interest - what jobs do the parents do? Please don't be so specific that they're identifiable but would love to know.
AbbevilleMummy
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Re: Paying for childcare cash in hand - what's the view?

Postby AbbevilleMummy » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:20 pm

It's not fair on the nanny but what can she do? She can either take the job or not. As you said, there are plenty of other nannies willing to do this, especially nannies non-UK nationals who are not planning on staying in the UK long term and therefore do not care about their tax earnings and pension position.

I also think its not fair on the parents though. Employing a nanny should be tax deductible. I remember well how unbearable it was paying another amount monthly to HMRC out of my already post-tax salary when we had a nanny!
Aprilmama
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Re: Paying for childcare cash in hand - what's the view?

Postby Aprilmama » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:59 pm

Tooposhtopush - I'm not sure what they do. It's a tricky one as I know how painful it is too have to pay a nanny out of already taxed income although the tax free childcare now on offer may help some (if the system ever works!). However, I do think it's really unfair when the nanny is the one to lose out - especially when the employers are obviously in a far more lucrative jobs probably accumulating nice pension pots!
SW12Pops
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Re: Paying for childcare cash in hand - what's the view?

Postby SW12Pops » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:18 pm

Totally agree that it's tough to pay but I wonder how many people have started petitions to change this versus people who pay cash in hand!
gail0810
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Re: Paying for childcare cash in hand - what's the view?

Postby gail0810 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:19 pm

She shouldn't take the job. It’s illegal for them to do that and there are plenty of employers who do play by the rules and pay tax, NI and employer’s NI as they should. She will be missing out on her legal entitlement to NI contributions and her pension contributions. It’s not fair to expect a nanny to accept conditions they wouldn’t accept themselves in their own jobs. If this is how they start out, it doesn’t bode well for future pay rise or conditions negotiations etc.
Beancounter
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Re: Paying for childcare cash in hand - what's the view?

Postby Beancounter » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:09 am

Since they would be acting illegally any HMRC officer reading these posts may even want to know more . The people can be prosecuted.
chorister
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Re: Paying for childcare cash in hand - what's the view?

Postby chorister » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:40 am

The employers had better hope that no one from HMRC reads this website ....

And I'd love to know from AbbevilleMummy why on earth she thinks I as a taxpayer should contribute to the cost of her nanny by making it tax deductible.
dudette
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Re: Paying for childcare cash in hand - what's the view?

Postby dudette » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:05 am

It’s illegal. She doesn’t have to turn the job down but she can tell them that if they don’t pay her properly she will report them to HMRC. If they then withdraw the job offer she should report them anyway. To be honest though anyone who is prepared to break the law so brazenly will no doubt be a terrible employer so she might be better off finding a job elsewhere.
 
supergirl
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Re: Paying for childcare cash in hand - what's the view?

Postby supergirl » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:08 pm

“And I'd love to know from AbbevilleMummy why on earth she thinks I as a taxpayer should contribute to the cost of her nanny by making it tax deductible.”

It is a very simplistic way to look at it.
Another approach is to think that if employing someone in your house can be deductible then less people would pay cash in hands, employees will be guaranteed the minimum wage (i used a cleaning agency 5 years ago and what they paid the cleaners was a shame hence me stopping), so the resilts is more employement with better pay and more taxes for the public.

I pay taxes for the schools AND pay school fees, i think thats fair but with your approach maybe i should complaint?
Kitkat04
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Re: Paying for childcare cash in hand - what's the view?

Postby Kitkat04 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:43 pm

It’s completely unacceptable and a practice that a lot of people round here thing is acceptable. There are so many rich families with full time live in staff who for some reason think that the law should not apply to them (I’m not saying that everyone is rich but just pointing out that even people who are begrudge paying their rightful tax for some extraordinary reason.). Everyone hates paying tax for the things that relate directly to them but that’s just the way it is. It’s illegal and should be reported.
Claphamconery
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Re: Paying for childcare cash in hand - what's the view?

Postby Claphamconery » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:13 pm

This is a real pet hate of mine she should turn down the job absolutely. There is a huge shortage of good nannies at the moment I am sure she will find a job with a good family who don’t believe the rules don’t apply to them.
firsttimerSW11
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Re: Paying for childcare cash in hand - what's the view?

Postby firsttimerSW11 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:50 pm

I am from another country where paying for childcare cash in hand is fairly common and no one seems to question the moral implications of it.
I think as long as both parties are amenable to it then it isn't a problem. I know people who pay entire salaries under the table and others who won't even let their nanny babysit without declaring it and plenty inbetween.
However if a childcare provider (nanny, for example) wishes to receive a fully tax(ed/able) salary then either really the family should agree to it, or the childcare provider should not accept the job.
If I were hiring a nanny and I wished to pay partly in cash, I'd try and gauge the appetite of the nanny for being paid in that way before wasting his/her time.
Kitkat04
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Re: Paying for childcare cash in hand - what's the view?

Postby Kitkat04 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:15 am

firsttimersw11 Brilliant: “As long as both parties are amenable to it, there shouldn’t be a problem.” As long as both people agree to act immorally and illegally, there shouldn’t be a problem because you are from a country where corruption is rife. Extraordinary thought process!