More peopled voted for parties supporting a 2nd referendum, than voted for parties in favour of Brexit.

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GuyD73
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More peopled voted for parties supporting a 2nd referendum, than voted for parties in favour of Brexit.

Postby GuyD73 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:19 pm

So, rather than bury this at the bottom of a pre-General Election thread, I thought it deserved to be highlighted.

 If you count the total votes in the election FOR parties that were advocating for a second referendum (Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, Plaid, SNP, Independents) then they considerably outnumber those cast for parties in favour of Brexit.

 Second referendum parties win by a margin of 54% to 46% - very close in fact to many of the polls that have been done in the period since the frauderendum.

 So it would seem the ‘will of the people’ is for a second referendum, and it’s only our iniquitous First Past the Post system that’s delivered a Conservative majority of 80 with only a 1% increase in vote share.

 FPTP is unfair and undemocratic, and we desperately need electoral reform. It’s the reason 3-4% of the electorate vote Green and they only ever get one seat. It’s the same reason UKIP got 12.6% of the vote (3.8m votes) in 2015 and only got one seat. While I find the views of UKIP and the Brexit Party abhorrent, I do think that in a functioning democracy, they should be properly represented. Who was it said ‘No taxation without representation’? Well there are a vast number of people who support smaller parties, who simply aren’t being represented. And before anyone says, we had a vote on that in 2011, it was for the Alternative vote and NOT proportional representation.

 To all the liars and naysayers who will inevitably pile in on this post. I have, over the years, had great support from the NVN community for my remain advocacy (thank you everyone), and it’s not surprising given how the area voted in the flawed referendum in which electoral law was broken by Vote Leave.

 And to refute a lie about me from an earlier post, I have never been banned from this site and am not banned on ANY social media platform or community group. Pesky things facts aren’t they?

 Many of you will be feeling  a little depressed about the election and the rights of our children to free movement as European citizens being ripped from them by a Brexit which will inevitably mean a less prosperous UK and fewer opportunities. I’d urge you not to lose hope though, we are a remain union now and will become more so with each week that passes. Brexit will happen and it’s an unconscionably stupid act of self-harm, but I believe in time we’ll be able to reverse it. It’ll rely on a number of things happening, and it probably won’t be for nearly a decade but we’ll get there in the end.

 What can we do in the meantime? I will be trying to put pressure on my Labour MP, and those for whom I campaigned, to change Labour’s constitution to allow for a national pact with other opposition parties. That way in 5 year’s time, we might be able to achieve a hung Parliament and remove the buffoon from government.

 You can also campaign for Electoral reform, sign petitions and support organisations seeking proportional representation, like Make Votes Matter, which you’ll find at https://makevotesmatter.e-activist.com/ ... petition/1

 It’ll be interesting to see what’s in the Russia report and also the investigation into misuse of public funds in the context of Johnson’s relationship with Jennifer Accuri, so we have that to look forward to, as well as the prospect of observing as our Liar-in-chief fails to deliver on his promises and our economy tanks. It’s going to be a grim few years I suspect, but there is much from which to take heart.

 Mike Galsworthy at Scientists for EU explains the reasons not to despair far better than I could at at https://www.facebook.com/scientistsfore ... 5671/?t=33

 As the old saying goes, ‘you may have won the battle, but we’ll win the war’.   
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SW11er
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Re: More peopled voted for parties supporting a 2nd referendum, than voted for parties in favour of Brexit.

Postby SW11er » Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:03 pm

The election was not being held on that one topic though (there was already a vote on Brexit a few years ago), so dangerous to draw the wrong conclusion.
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Moontide
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Re: More peopled voted for parties supporting a 2nd referendum, than voted for parties in favour of Brexit.

Postby Moontide » Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:09 am

Guy after Thursday’s result I thought we may have been lucky enough to hear the end of you but it seems not. Can you just move on now and take your campaigning elsewhere? It is turning me off NappyValleyNet as you just seem to come on here and rant (aggressively).
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blenkarne
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Re: More peopled voted for parties supporting a 2nd referendum, than voted for parties in favour of Brexit.

Postby blenkarne » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:06 pm

Yes, please do everyone a favour and move on...otherwise it is not healthy in so many ways
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windmill26
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Re: More peopled voted for parties supporting a 2nd referendum, than voted for parties in favour of Brexit.

Postby windmill26 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:42 pm

blenkarne,Moontide
May I suggest that you don't click on the post title if the subject doesn't interest you ? There are plenty of posts that don't interest me (everyday!) but I don't ask other NV members to move on or not post.I am aware that this is a public forum and not a closed community forum so I respect and welcome the fact that we can have varied conversations with neighbours and this is why NV is successful . If posts were limited to nannies,schools,shops,restaurants...etc...I think plenty of regulars would have moved on long ago.
 
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BrianP
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Re: More peopled voted for parties supporting a 2nd referendum, than voted for parties in favour of Brexit.

Postby BrianP » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:31 pm

This is extraordinary.  This poster is behaving exactly like the Labour party.  If the result is wrong it's not the strategy or ideas that were wrong,  it's that the voters simply didn't understand so they have to be nagged until they get it right. PR has been decided. Brexit has been decided. Most of us have two ears and one mouth. Ears are for listening.
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AbbevilleMummy
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Re: More peopled voted for parties supporting a 2nd referendum, than voted for parties in favour of Brexit.

Postby AbbevilleMummy » Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:27 pm

Guy, in your graphics above, you are misrepresenting my vote.

I voted Remain in the in the referendum and am very sad that we are leaving the EU.

But I voted Conservative last week as I simply didn't agree with many of the policies in the Labour manifesto nor did I believe that Jeremy Corbyn could lead this country. But mostly I voted Conservative as I really didn't want to see another hung parliament.

You have classified me as "For Brexit", which I'm not. Your "For Brexit" vs "Against Brexit" doesn't take into account that this was a general election, not a referendum and therefore you are misrepresenting a lot of people. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the opposite position to me who voted strongly for Brexit but could never bring themselves to vote Conservative/Boris!

You have skewed the data for fit your arguments. The results do not show that the will of the people is for a second referendum. Quite the reverse in fact. I would also understand your desperation for electoral reform if the Conservatives had won more seats but had not had a clear majority when looking at overall votes. But that is not the case either.
 
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Scottov
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Re: More peopled voted for parties supporting a 2nd referendum, than voted for parties in favour of Brexit.

Postby Scottov » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:48 am

Dear god man, just go
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juliantenniscoach
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Re: More peopled voted for parties supporting a 2nd referendum, than voted for parties in favour of Brexit.

Postby juliantenniscoach » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:36 am

I was exactly in the same position as AbbevilleMummy.  I voted Remain but there was no way on Earth I would have voted for Corbyn's Labour party.  Apples aren't the only fruit, Brexit wasn't the only issue.
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daddydaycarerocks
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Re: More peopled voted for parties supporting a 2nd referendum, than voted for parties in favour of Brexit.

Postby daddydaycarerocks » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:02 pm

This is boring Guy - have you stepped back to ponder if actually your view isn’t necessarily the right view ? And even if it might be, the majority don’t agree with you. I have not met one leave voter who has changed their mind since the referendum, to the contrary, they are more resolute.

I feel your post above is rude and aggressive and I would be disappointed if my children grew up to be like you. I suspect your local MP sighs every time they hear from you.

Maybe it’s actually time you are banned from local SM until Brexit is completed ?
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atbattersea
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Re: More peopled voted for parties supporting a 2nd referendum, than voted for parties in favour of Brexit.

Postby atbattersea » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:00 pm

You have classified me as "For Brexit", which I'm not…

Actually he hasn't done that at all, all he has indicated is that if there was proportional representation there would be a different split in the number for each party in parliament - effectively the Conservatives would not have a majority, and would have to form a coalition. In fact, that's what nearly always happens in PR systems.

The benefit is that minority parties get to have a say. The negative aspect is that majority parties get to have a say. :-)

The second part is a problem when a small party gets to dictate government policy, which is what the DUP did with the May government.

While PR gives places in parliament to Green MPs, it would also give places to UKIP and Brexit party MPs, and perhaps even those further to the right. I don't see this as a really big problem, unless these parties are in a leading coalition, and can advocate for things beyond their strict size dictates. At the end of the day it satisfies a proportion of the public to have these people as MPs, so, so be it - they get what they deserve.

On the number of votes cast against the conservatives, I find it unbelievable that people couldn't work out that they needed to vote tactically to avoid a huge Conservative majority, there are no end of seats in which you see people have voted Labour and Lib Dem in large numbers, but the Conservatives still took the seat (often by just a few votes). This is because Labour and Lib Dem voters split their vote. On this point I am amazed at the number who voted Lib Dem in Battersea, when it should have been obvious to anyone that the Lib Dems did not stand a chance here.

On Brexit as a whole, what a mess. Even with a huge majority Johnson still has to move the goalposts while braying on about "healing the nation" (insisting on a trade deal by the end of 2020, removing workers rights and environmental protection from the Brexit bill). What a Berk (in the true rhyming slang sense of the word)!

Keep at it Guy, we won't win, but we can keep complaining! And it won't hurt in five year's time to remind people what they voted for.
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KatherineHepburn
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Re: More peopled voted for parties supporting a 2nd referendum, than voted for parties in favour of Brexit.

Postby KatherineHepburn » Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:36 am

Thanks Guy. Keep at it.
These are hugely depressing times for politics and the state of this country but there will be a swing back.
I find Carole Cadwalladr (@carolecadwalla) very, very interesting on this subject.
All the folk saying that they couldn't possibly vote for Jeremy Corbyn or in the States, Hilary Clinton, could certainly do with watching her Ted Talk. Depressing and enlightening in equal measure.
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juliantenniscoach
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Re: More peopled voted for parties supporting a 2nd referendum, than voted for parties in favour of Brexit.

Postby juliantenniscoach » Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:51 am

I find it highly offensive being told who to vote for, or if I chose a particular candidate or party, that I was "wrong".  Or somehow I'm ill-informed, naive or dim because I didn't follow the lead of the most vocal on SM.  I could give you a myriad of reasons why I voted a particular way but that particular lobby is so arrogant they'd still dismiss it as "wrong".
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