Does being privately educated mean discrimination at job interviews?

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AHW
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Re: Does being privately educated mean discrimination at job interviews?

Postby AHW » Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:52 am

We moved out of SW11 some time ago and my eldest has benefitted from an outstanding state grammar education and is holding an Oxbridge offer (fingers crossed for next week!) - but he has had no benefit from being state educated. Contextual offers have meant he's had to put down our household income, our level of education, and our postcode is in a 'privileged' tier (or however they classify it).  For a couple of internships he applied for  he didn't get beyond the first hurdle, due to him being deemed to be too privileged, which I have found very odd.

I do think that the playing field has been tilted in the wrong direction for too long (both DH and I were privately educated and I know it helped me), but I'm not sure that an automatic ban on applying for something because you are now deemed to be 'too white/male/well educated/wealthy' is all that healthy either - but that's a different conversation! 

Anecdotally, friends of ours whose children are privately educated seem to have found getting offers tougher this year (particularly for medicine), and I have three friends with children who are now going to university in America......
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Needcoffeenow
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Re: Does being privately educated mean discrimination at job interviews?

Postby Needcoffeenow » Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:13 pm

I think the Civil Service Fast Stream plan has been abandoned.
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Pink and Lilac
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Re: Does being privately educated mean discrimination at job interviews?

Postby Pink and Lilac » Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:24 pm

Please please don't shoot me down for asking this question but do firms reply telling these young hopeful interns / individuals that they are literally too privileged?? I am gobsmacked - that they would admit it for one thing surely that is discrimination?
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Normandie76
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Re: Does being privately educated mean discrimination at job interviews?

Postby Normandie76 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:38 pm

I find this kind of annoying.

Neighbour next door just bought a £1.1m house last year. Spent £500k doing it up.

His kid goes to primary state school and now onto secondary next September, also state.

He openly says he could have afforded private education but didn't see the point, his kid isn't that bright etc and they wanted to spend it on their house instead doing it up. It's now worth £1.75m.

He's allowed to spend his money on what he chooses - in terms of property and not be judged - but if someone spends it on their kids, why is that deemed an 'advantage over others'?

Isn't property wealth far more of a guarantee of future inherited wealth than an education.

Also, all this talk of connections and networks. I went to private school. I was just pleased to see the back of most of the people at my school. There was zero connections or networks for me. I think that aspect of private school is overdone. It's just not true for most people who go privately. Maybe Eaton but then all of them are already loaded anyway.

And to finish, another example. A Mum at our state primary banging on about how she could never send her kids private.

Then she and her husband decide to buy a flat opposite them and rent it out. They're constantly going on holidays.

Again, another form of 'advantage' - but if it's to spend money on holidays it's OK?

Why are people so angry about private education when there are many people that could afford private school but instead buy a nice house, a nice holiday, a nice car etc, put it in the stock market or their pension - but they aren't judged?
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Re: Does being privately educated mean discrimination at job interviews?

Postby Guest » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:49 pm

@normandie76 maybe it’s nothing to do with finances and everything to do with them thinking that a state school education is better for their child(ren).
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Starr
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Re: Does being privately educated mean discrimination at job interviews?

Postby Starr » Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:55 am

Everyone and has an opinion on what the right thing is and lots of people will judge either way. There is no right or wrong way to get by in life and judging people for how they choose to spend their money isn't right. I confess I went to one of the independents in London and I can tell you it guarantees nothing. My husband went to a boarding school and it guarantees nothing. We are talking about our peers. This was before the positive discrimination and the huge competition for everything.
OP in your shoes I would wait and see. You can go for private senior school, a grammar school or a selective state. Or he might thrive beautifully in a comprehensive / academy locally. It's absolutely true a bright child that is nurtured will do well anywhere although there will always be anxiety around whether school gave them enough.
It will be fine and better not to be under pressure and for your child not to feel the financial burden in later years.
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dudette
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Re: Does being privately educated mean discrimination at job interviews?

Postby dudette » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:19 am

Bunnypigeon1 wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:25 pm
It’s probably the leading reason behind the increased applications to American universities….why spend all your money, time and effort on excellent schools only to then be told you can’t get a place at oxbridge because you spent too much money, time and effort. Ivy League institutions have no such hang ups!
My American friend has been staying with me recently and totally out of the blue she commented on the fact that Ivy League universities seem to be “discriminating” against (or no longer favouring if you prefer that way of looking at it) kids from wealthy areas (she lives in a very chi-chi town near New York). So it’s happening across the pond too.

My daughter has just finished year 13 and I have heard very many stories from a lot of private schools about some of their top students not getting offers this year. Oxbridge has been hard but virtually no one has got into Durham or Edinburgh. I’ve heard of great candidates wanting to study medicine not getting offers from anywhere. It’s a particularly tough year as there are so many deferred offer holders left over from the pandemic but it does seem as if a lot of private school kids are finding it a lot tougher than in previous years. I’d be interested to hear from parents of state school kids if the same is happening there and if it’s just this year being tough or if it’s a crackdown on private schools in general. My personal view is it doesn’t really matter that much. They have already had the vast majority of their education and increasingly big firms are recruiting university-blind to stop the Oxbridge domination (ironically!). They’ll all do fine and I’d argue an Oxbridge education is of more use to someone from a disadvantaged background than an Etonian who already has a wealth of advantage and connections.
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2009Kat
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Re: Does being privately educated mean discrimination at job interviews?

Postby 2009Kat » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:10 am

I work for a city firm and to reiterate what previous posters have said, it is really about levelling the playing field. 
Applications are made and the HR team review to ensure the right levels of academics etc.  There is also some contextual analysis made eg background. Then the candidates are interviewed CV blind (ie the interviewers do not see CVs in advance).
In terms of the contextual analysis it is not all on school background although that is a part.  For example, my children are state educated (tick) but given they have high earning, university educated parents that would be a massive untick!

Much resource is devoted to schools/university schemes for those who don't have access to the resources that a private school may have  - for example, I know some private schools employ Oxbridge tutors to help candidates with Oxbridge entrance.  You'd never get that in a state school...

The whole point is to get the best candidates and increase diversity/inclusion.  It is just recognised that the best candidates are not only those who've been to expensive schools/have connections but that those candidates are now on the field with many others who have a lot to offer. 

 
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chorister
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Re: Does being privately educated mean discrimination at job interviews?

Postby chorister » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:24 am

If you really want some sort of objective answer, then read Robert Plomin's Blueprint.  Plomin is one of the world's leading experts on twin studies, and Blueprint is serious science written (reasonably) accessibly, teasing out the differences between nature and nurture in developing personality.  In summary - it's about 50% genetic, 35% the so-called 'unshared environment' (ie stuff that happens to you) and 15% the 'shared environment' - parenting, education etc.  It doesn't mean that anyone is predestined, but it does mean that it may not be worth worrying too much.  And if it sounds unlikely that genetics is that important, then ask yourself why almost every society prohibits in-breeding.
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TFP
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Re: Does being privately educated mean discrimination at job interviews?

Postby TFP » Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:23 pm

chorister wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:24 am
If you really want some sort of objective answer, then read Robert Plomin's Blueprint.  Plomin is one of the world's leading experts on twin studies, and Blueprint is serious science written (reasonably) accessibly, teasing out the differences between nature and nurture in developing personality.  In summary - it's about 50% genetic, 35% the so-called 'unshared environment' (ie stuff that happens to you) and 15% the 'shared environment' - parenting, education etc.  It doesn't mean that anyone is predestined, but it does mean that it may not be worth worrying too much.  And if it sounds unlikely that genetics is that important, then ask yourself why almost every society prohibits in-breeding.
Er, right.

The following tends much more towards pure anecdote than academic study but I quite enjoyed reading this a few weeks ago in one of the Sunday Times supplements.

The explorer Ed Stafford is a successful chap, e.g. can earn the thick end of £20k for doing a 30-minute talk, lives in Grade II listed Grange, came through Sandhurst and before that private school, etc after being adopted as a baby by a [only modestly] well-heeled couple. In the short interview below he mentions how his biological parents decided, in their teens, that they were too young to keep him, but that they stayed together, and even went on to have two more boys together. One of these two younger siblings of Stafford's is now a mechanic, the other a carpenter. Stafford is gracious enough to freely acknowledge the likely impact of his schooling etc.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ed-s ... -s7dvttnlj

Obviously most kids who go to private school are from well-heeled families. Most kids who go to state schools are not. The kids of well-heeled families obviously go on to do better than average, mostly, I suspect, for reasons that have little to do with genetics. Something that's not well understood, and that doesn't IMO get much attention, is the incremental benefit of attending private school for the children of well-heeled families, who with or without the school would anyway have lots of cultural/social capital etc.
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MrV
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Re: Does being privately educated mean discrimination at job interviews?

Postby MrV » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:44 am

It’s about time too. I am a global HR director for a large multinational - and yes, we do analyse the screening questions and background of each candidate to decide who to progress. As a previous poster said, this is about levelling the playing field - something that should have been done decades ago.

Does is really mean a tougher time for little privately educated, bubble wrapped, exotic gap-yeared Freddie or Amelia? No, but it may seem like it as their comfortable world of calling in favours, trust funds and blatant sense of entitlement to walk into a high paying job after university comes crashing down. There’s no better life lesson, and it’s also a good sense of the obstacles that ‘disadvantaged’ kids have faced for years.

The private bubble is bursting, and for many of you, it has clearly swept the rug from underneath your feet.
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Londonista
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Re: Does being privately educated mean discrimination at job interviews?

Postby Londonista » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:27 am

Well said MrV!
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Kirstie’s Mom
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Re: Does being privately educated mean discrimination at job interviews?

Postby Kirstie’s Mom » Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:11 am

My partner’s daughter went to Stowe , after she got her Masters she was told at one job interview that they had enough privately educated employees so they were looking to fill the role with a state educated person . She didn’t get the role .
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atbattersea
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Re: Does being privately educated mean discrimination at job interviews?

Postby atbattersea » Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:11 pm

2009Kat wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:10 am
…for example, I know some private schools employ Oxbridge tutors to help candidates with Oxbridge entrance.  You'd never get that in a state school...
While schools won’t employ “Oxbridge” tutors, that won’t stop parents doing so. And I have certainly heard of state schools with “Oxbridge” clubs, that assist their brightest students in their applications.
 
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dudette
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Re: Does being privately educated mean discrimination at job interviews?

Postby dudette » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:46 am

MrV wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:44 am
It’s about time too. I am a global HR director for a large multinational - and yes, we do analyse the screening questions and background of each candidate to decide who to progress. As a previous poster said, this is about levelling the playing field - something that should have been done decades ago.

Does is really mean a tougher time for little privately educated, bubble wrapped, exotic gap-yeared Freddie or Amelia? No, but it may seem like it as their comfortable world of calling in favours, trust funds and blatant sense of entitlement to walk into a high paying job after university comes crashing down. There’s no better life lesson, and it’s also a good sense of the obstacles that ‘disadvantaged’ kids have faced for years.

The private bubble is bursting, and for many of you, it has clearly swept the rug from underneath your feet.

The problem with this approach is it’s just discrimination of another form and as we all know (or should know) - discrimination is taking one characteristic and making a broad base of assumptions based on that. Yes there are very many children at private schools who lead a charmed existence. But there are also some on bursaries, some whose parents have scrimped and saved to get them there (as did my parents and I’ve had a lifetime of people assuming I come from a very posh background due to my accent which is not at all true). What if little Freddie or Amelia’s parents were so rich that they were brought up by nannies in a loveless household? Being wealthy doesn’t shield you from often terrible mental health. Equally many kids from state schools come from wealthy backgrounds and I would actually argue that the greatest privilege of all is having parents who are interested in you and encourage you to do well and that is something that you can find in the poorest of households - especially among many first generation immigrant communities who place a high value on education. I am willing to bet the vast majority of children from “disadvantaged backgrounds” who get into the top universities come from these backgrounds. If you live in a sink estate and your single parent is a drug dealer or prostitute who leaves you home alone then I’m guessing your chances of getting into Oxbridge are pretty much nil.
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