CROSSRAIL 2 VENTILATION SHAFT (AGAIN)

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Honeybee2010
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Re: CROSSRAIL 2 VENTILATION SHAFT (AGAIN)

Postby Honeybee2010 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:29 pm

For anyone who DOES care about losing green open space, somewhere for your children to run around, picnics in the summer, walking the dog just for starters…and for anyone who DOESN'T want to end up stuck in even longer traffic queues in a highly residential already pretty gridlocked area, please feel free to sign the petition - link attached.

https://democracy.wandsworth.gov.uk/mge ... splay.aspx

Only 300 or so signatures so far - we need a lot more to have an impact. Please take 5 minutes - it could mean about 5-10 years of sanity in return and the sooner this reaches a larger audience the sooner TfL etc will sit up and provide some more sensible alternatives.
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Goldhawk
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Re: CROSSRAIL 2 VENTILATION SHAFT (AGAIN)

Postby Goldhawk » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:52 pm

To quote the petition:
" 5-10 years of:
• A huge structure nearly the size of a football field at the entrance of the Common (see below)
• 24/7 noise and massive traffic congestion throughout area
• Reduced child safety around Common

Long Term:
• Permanent two storey structure above shaft measuring 25 x 25 metres
• Destruction of school and common playing fields
• Air pollution coming from trains below
We the undersigned object to Wandsworth Common being blighted in this manner because of a proposed rerouting from Tooting to Balham, which in itself is totally unnecessary when taking into account relative regeneration benefits to Tooting over Balham."

We support the case for Tooting over Balham and demand that Wandsworth Common in any case is preserved for future generations"

I'm undecided about Tooting vs Balham so I won't be signing this although I agree the Common should be protected if possible

The Crossrail docs say " A station at Tooting Broadway would take up to two years longer to build, would require much larger worksites and thousands more lorry movements. This is because a station there would have to be built from the surface with more material removed by road. This would mean it would be more disruptive and cost nearly twice as much to build than a station at Balham. "

2 years more building work and more lorries = not great

I don't see how the road traffic congestion will be improved by them choosing Tooting over Balham. There is still going to be a massive building site at Clapham Junction
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Cloud
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Re: CROSSRAIL 2 VENTILATION SHAFT (AGAIN)

Postby Cloud » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:55 pm

Has anyone considered the impact on the traffic in Tooting High Street and around Tooting Broadway if the Tooting proposal goes through? That is a massively gridlocked area, and there are several primary schools in the immediate vicinity. Where can I find information regarding the proposals and the impact on traffic?
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Boobelle
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Re: CROSSRAIL 2 VENTILATION SHAFT (AGAIN)

Postby Boobelle » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:50 pm

I would like to point out that so far all what I heard and read, people and businesses of Tooting Broadway really want the CR2 - very interesting points on tooting online.com in their forum section.

Connecting Tooting , the hospital and the surrounding neighbourhood to SW train network and faster connections to zone1 would be transformational to the area, whereas a station at Balham simply increases capacity on the current network.

St. Georges is a teaching hospital and at the moment it is not easy to commute there and I know the hospital is really pro Tooting CR2
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Goldhawk
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Re: CROSSRAIL 2 VENTILATION SHAFT (AGAIN)

Postby Goldhawk » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:56 pm

There is a railway station in Tooting already by the way
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DonJ
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Re: CROSSRAIL 2 VENTILATION SHAFT (AGAIN)

Postby DonJ » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:40 pm

I think there are quite a lot of people in Balham who would like Crossrail to come to their area too - saying Tooting wants it is accurate of course, but that doesn't mean that everyone in Balham is necessarily against it. I can't imagine the traffic in Tooting being worse than the current gridlock, the mind boggles!
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Boobelle
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Re: CROSSRAIL 2 VENTILATION SHAFT (AGAIN)

Postby Boobelle » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:33 pm

Came across this blog which gives a fairly good and detailed argument as to why CR2 at Balham makes the Northern Line congestion worse not better:
http://ukrail.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/cr ... -line.html
If it is correct then CR2 at Balham really is wasted money

And Goldhawk, it is only a tube station so only Norther Line, CR2 would add more destinations from outside London and to... Balham has already both.
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DonJ
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Re: CROSSRAIL 2 VENTILATION SHAFT (AGAIN)

Postby DonJ » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:43 pm

It actually argues against Balham AND Tooting for the same reasons doesn't it??
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Goldhawk
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Re: CROSSRAIL 2 VENTILATION SHAFT (AGAIN)

Postby Goldhawk » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:53 pm

BooBelle - Tooting has a separate overground railway station - about a 10-15 min walk away from Tooting Broadway Underground
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Goldhawk
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Re: CROSSRAIL 2 VENTILATION SHAFT (AGAIN)

Postby Goldhawk » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:58 pm

Agree with DonJ - the blogger is arguing against both Balham & Tooting

http://ukrail.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/cr ... swirl.html
This proposes Earlsfield instead
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Boobelle
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Re: CROSSRAIL 2 VENTILATION SHAFT (AGAIN)

Postby Boobelle » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:13 pm

Regarding the arguments pro Tooting or Balham, there are always going to be different views. Each argument can always be followed by contra...

In my view Tooting Broadway will benefit immensely from CR2 unlike Balham. Simple.

But the most important thing for me is the fact that Wandsworth Common, which I have been enjoying and cherishing on daily bases for the last 10years with my dog and children will be sacrificed for this project.
And I simply object to that.
But each to their on.
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Goldhawk
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Re: CROSSRAIL 2 VENTILATION SHAFT (AGAIN)

Postby Goldhawk » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:21 pm

Boobelle - the previous plans for Tooting involved the shafts elsewhere on the Common. By Skylark and the playground and also on Trinity Fields

Hopefully Dan Watkins will come back with some more info on where the shafts will be if they choose Tooting
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Boobelle
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Re: CROSSRAIL 2 VENTILATION SHAFT (AGAIN)

Postby Boobelle » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:24 pm

Wandsworth Prison perhaps?
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ukrailblog
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Re: CROSSRAIL 2 VENTILATION SHAFT (AGAIN)

Postby ukrailblog » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:46 pm

I'm the author of the Swirl proposal mentioned above that argues for Crossrail 2 to run via Earlsfield, not Balham (or Tooting). The primary reason being that it looks likely to me that Crossrail 2 would make the Northern Line worse, not better. To back this up, I've analysed journey times if Crossrail 2 were in existence at Balham.

It is detailed reading, but what it shows is that the saving on journeys like Morden or Tooting Broadway to Victoria or Euston are so small, that most passengers won't change to Crossrail 2. However, the savings for passengers from places like Epsom, Chessington, Kingston, Wimbledon and Raynes Park to the City are significant enough that they will want to change from Crossrail 2 to the Northern Line. Routing the Crossrail via Balham looks like a nightmare for the Northern Line to me.

Relevant to this thread on Wandsworth Common is that so long as Crossrail 2 goes via Balham, there has to be an access shaft between Balham and Clapham Junction. If not Wandsworth Common, then where? As such, another way to save Wandsworth Common is to argue for the Swirl plan via Earlsfield. Just mention "Crossrail 2 Swirl" in your response to the TfL consultation!
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Broken Dad
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Re: CROSSRAIL 2 VENTILATION SHAFT (AGAIN)

Postby Broken Dad » Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:14 pm

Balham is very well served by rail and tube and beautiful to boot. We do not want it ruined for years on end by construction. This will at the very least:

1. Lower house prices for many during the very lengthy build and I am talking serious % NOT 5%;

2. Make any house near it almost valueless (to the owner by killing its equity) and almost permanently unsalable; and

3. Destroy shopping, nightlife and ambience in Balham (according the plans).

But hey at least commuters from miles out of London and in adjacent places such as Battersea (where many voting in favour of Balham seem to come from) may benefit. Selfish I know but why would we in Balham want to ruin ourselves economically for some unknown commuter?
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