Help: husband has found god

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Chucka
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Re: Help: husband has found god

Postby Chucka » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:16 am

hal wrote:
Scottov wrote:
hal wrote: Would you feel the same way if the OP was a Christian or atheist and the faith based school being proposed was an Islamic one?
what are you trying to say?
Exactly what I did say, and nothing more. Do you think that all faith based schooling, particularly in the face of a differently held familial belief system, is benign?

If so, it's not a philosophy that I subscribe to personally, but I was born in a Muslim country in a Muslim religious and cultural background, grew up at CofE and Catholic schools in England, and have family members who are Muslim, RC and even Budddhist.

Faith based learning can be positive. It can also carry with it some of the less enlightened views of that religious teaching such as where they broadly sit on the rights of women, LBGT people, and traditional marriage. Let alone questions of existence, evolution Etc.

Or do you just mean you've heard good things about Holy Ghost? In which case, I would agree.
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atbattersea
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Re: Help: husband has found god

Postby atbattersea » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:16 am

Chucka wrote:Illogical type phrases such as 'That is your truth, I have mine' or 'we can't know' are themselves a statement of 'faith' albeit 'faith' in a negative.
These are just out of context. hypothetical quotes. When it come down to it, and atheists want answers, they don't just give up with "we can't know" (ie "we don't know"). What they do is discuss it amongst themselves, think about it, and write about it. This may be somewhat confusing to you, but this is called "philosophy". Another branch of the same strand of thought is called "ethics".

ie we can develop humanist ideas about what we are, where we come from and how we should live our lives - and still not be sure of the answer - without having to refer to the ultimate "we don't know": which is "oh, it must have been god wot dun it".
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trylifecoach
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Re: Help: husband has found god

Postby trylifecoach » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:21 am

Hi
I was subjected to exactly the same situation decades ago and survived it with my kids in a great position in their twenties now and there closer to me than my evangelical ex.
I compromised difference is I believe in a God but can't stand church or established religion for probably similar reasons to yours.
Insist on alternate weekends one with church one with you, When the kids are with you do something they enjoy that's active I used to take mine indoor rock climbing they loved it you will form a bond that is much closer than a religion can that demands a rule based following.
You'll find you will bond better with them than your husband as they will find the repetition of never ending meetings and demands will seem boring to them in comparison to an active land interesting life. Church life shouldn't be so demanding in our present society.
Hang on in your marriage as long as possible maybe he will see sense in spending quality family time together as the children bond better with you and see the light.
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Chucka
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Re: Help: husband has found god

Postby Chucka » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:57 am

Just to offer well researched positives of Church attendance. I think that if your hubby feels an openness to appreciate some of the benefits too he is hopefully much more open to not losing sight that you deeply love your family and have a right to be wanting what you see as only the best for them.


http://sundaysoftware.com/site/the-life ... embership/

increase the average life expectancy of your children by 8 years
significantly reduce your child's use and risk from Alcohol, Tobacco and Drugs
dramatically lower their risk of suicide
help them rebound from depression 70% faster
dramatically reduce their risk for committing a crime
improve their attitude at school and increase their school participation
reduce their risk for rebelliousness
reduce the likelihood that they would binge drink in college
improve their odds for a "very happy" life
provide them with a life-long moral compass
provide children with a caring extended family
get them to wear their seatbelts more often


-all of the above supported by research from Duke University, Indiana University, The University of Michigan, The Center for Disease Control, Barna Research Group, Gallup, Pew, and the National Institute for Healthcare Research, and several national surveys. (see the footnotes
Last edited by Chucka on Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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atbattersea
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Re: Help: husband has found god

Postby atbattersea » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:12 pm

Chucka wrote:increase the average life expectancy of your children by 8 years
significantly reduce your child's use and risk from Alcohol, Tobacco and Drugs
dramatically lower their risk of suicide
help them rebound from depression 70% faster
dramatically reduce their risk for committing a crime
improve their attitude at school and increase their school participation
reduce their risk for rebelliousness
reduce the likelihood that they would binge drink in college
improve their odds for a "very happy" life
provide them with a life-long moral compass
provide children with a caring extended family
get them to wear their seatbelts more often
Your Jedi mind tricks won't work on me!
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dudette
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Re: Help: husband has found god

Postby dudette » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:02 pm

If your husband has found God as an adult, then presumably you could argue that it's up to your kids to find God (or not) when they're adults too, not to have it thrust upon them as children. Richard Dawkins is worth a read on this subject! This is really an either/or and it's hard to find room for compromise. You are equally entitled to say you think your children shouldn't be indoctrinated/taught (depending on your point of view!) about religion as he is to say they should be. I have to say I'm on your side. I'm a vegetarian but I have never made my children vegetarians as I think they should decide for themselves when they're older (even though I have moral issues with meat).

Having said that, perhaps you could compromise on one church service a week and no faith schools or Sunday schools, and on the understanding that the children should not be forced to go if they don't want to. I don't believe in God or Jesus (although you could say that about some Christians!) but I do like going to church (as long as it's not happy-clappy which it sounds like your evangelical husband may be into) as I find it quite calming and meditative and I like a nice sing-song. I also rather wish I was Jewish as I like the sense of community and belonging that being Jewish and going to synagogue entails!

Good luck - I split up from a long-term relationship partly over religion. It's a hard one.
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Uphill
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Re: Help: husband has found god

Postby Uphill » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:53 pm

I really feel for you and hope you find a way through this.
I'm atheist and my husband is an easy going agnostic. If he were to become religious and expect me to comply with pushing a certain kind of religion into our children, this would bring an enormous amount of conflict into our lives. Not only would I struggle to identify with his faith, but I'd feel my children were being lied to.
There are always differences of opinion in marriage, but where one party essentially believes fundamentally different things about our existence and why we are here, I can imagine it's very different to find a middle ground.
I'm sorry but I have no advice for how to resolve other than to say that if this situation were to arise in my marriage, the only hope of moving forward would be to be if he agreed not to push religion on the children. People often try to treat atheism as a religion which it is not. You don't raise children as atheists. You just don't feed superstition. I would strongly empathise with anyone who felt uncomfortable with their own children being moulded to a particular religious view that they don't share. Good luck xxx
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papinian
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Re: Help: husband has found god

Postby papinian » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:07 pm

It's very interesting to read all of the responses.

Something that I notice is that the differences in the responses aren't between those who are religious and those who are not but rather between those for whom religious belief/practice is important (whether they're for or against it) and those for whom it's not (e.g. Scottov).

Another thing that I notice is that posters aren't really taking on board the fact that the original poster has described herself as having "strong atheist beliefs". She isn't just someone who isn't religious - she's someone whose beliefs conflict profoundly with those of her husband.

Although I'm at the other end of the religion spectrum from the original poster, my sympathies are with her rather than her husband. They got married - presumably in a civil wedding rather than a church wedding - at the time neither had any religious belief and, whether express or implied, the shared intention was to raise the children as atheists or, at least, outside of any religious faith. It's the husband who now wants something different - which he can want - but the default position should be the original common position of both spouses.

If this were a case of two spouses who were Christian when they married, had a church wedding, and then one of them loss his/her faith and didn't want their children raised Christian my position would be the same.

I would say that until the children are seven (the "age of reason") they should be raised in line with the original shared intention. After they turn seven then your husband should have an opportunity to share his faith with them, without them being under any obligation to join him in it. Obviously, what is appropriate depends on the age of the children as they get older.
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Chucka
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Re: Help: husband has found god

Postby Chucka » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:16 pm

I so disagree. Marriage is not a contract to 'stay as I am at the time of the contract unless my spouse approves of the change. It is a contract for better for worse. Marriage means we both change and grow as adult people without fear that personal growth, change, review or even serious error nullifies the contract.
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hal
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Re: Help: husband has found god

Postby hal » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:33 pm

Chucka wrote:I so disagree. Marriage is not a contract to 'stay as I am at the time of the contract unless my spouse approves of the change. It is a contract for better for worse. Marriage means we both change and grow as adult people without fear that personal growth, change, review or even serious error nullifies the contract.
If you're a Christian, yes..... secular weddings don't prescribe "for better or worse" unless the couple want it to.

Marriage means different things to different people. It's a commitment, sure, but the extent and scope of that commitment depends on what the individuals choose. It's a personal commitment (mine included "better or worse" but that's just my world view), as it should be, and not one prescribed by religious orthodoxy.

In any event, I don't think Papinian is suggesting that the marriage "contract" is being annulled or fundamentally prevents change or growth - just that there was a shared understanding at the outset and that that status quo ante shouldn't be lightly changed for the whole family because one partner decides it should. (Apologies to P if I have misunderstood.)
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papinian
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Re: Help: husband has found god

Postby papinian » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:43 pm

Chucka: Your latest post doesn't assist anyone in trying to grapple with the question the original poster was asking. The original poster's question does not relate to the other spouse's religious/philosophic belief but about the religious/philosophic belief in which their children are raised. Very different.

As regards changing and growing as adults, if I decide that I want to move to New Zealand then I think it would be highly unreasonable for me to expect that my wishes should trump those of my wife to stay in London. In order for relationships to work there needs to be some societal acceptance of "tie-breaker rules" where spouses want different things, e.g. no change to status quo unless both spouses agree. This is basic 101 stuff in most societies. The change in the role of women since the 1950s meant that these "tie-breaker rules" needed to be recast (previously they were basically "husband wins" - which was quite unfair). The consequent disruption contributed to the rise in divorce rate from 1970 to 1987.

hal: Just saw your post. Yes, you've understood exactly what I am saying.

Chucka: To save adding another post to this thread, I edit this to answer your next post below: I don't know where you've got the idea that I suggested you support gender inequality, but in any case that's not what I'm suggesting! It's not all about you!
Last edited by papinian on Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Chucka
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Re: Help: husband has found god

Postby Chucka » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:52 pm

Papinan. I have not referred to and do not support gender inequality. please do not suggest I hold views I have not expressed. Perhaps best to read all my posts rather than perhaps jump to a possible perceived stereotype? : )
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musicalmum
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Re: Help: husband has found god

Postby musicalmum » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:48 pm

Wow I think this is a really tricky one. I think that it is every adult's right to practise a faith, belief system, philosophy or whatever for themselves. But I don't think it's fair to indoctrinate children into that, because it is presenting something as truth, which isn't. Children are vulnerable and accept the world as it's presented to them, especially when they're young. Once they have been indoctrinated into a particular view of things, it's really hard, if not impossible, for them to freely decide for themselves whether that is something they believe or don't (as perhaps your husband is demonstrating now!)

I would support your husband in his faith as much as you can, but if you're not happy with your children being taken to church, participating in ceremonies or whatever, then I think it's really valid to say you're not comfortable with that whilst they are children and would prefer for them to choose for themselves when they are adults.

Good luck!
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Happy Valley
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Re: Help: husband has found god

Postby Happy Valley » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:52 pm

increase the average life expectancy of your children by 8 years
significantly reduce your child's use and risk from Alcohol, Tobacco and Drugs
dramatically lower their risk of suicide
help them rebound from depression 70% faster
dramatically reduce their risk for committing a crime
improve their attitude at school and increase their school participation
reduce their risk for rebelliousness
reduce the likelihood that they would binge drink in college
improve their odds for a "very happy" life
provide them with a life-long moral compass
provide children with a caring extended family
get them to wear their seatbelts more often

Snigger snigger... hilarious! :lol:
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bangmyheadonthewall
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Re: Help: husband has found god

Postby bangmyheadonthewall » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:14 am

I'm not an expert but I would have a conversation as a family explaining that you and your husband have different opinions and what they are, and explaining to the children that nobody can pretend to know the truth more than another because nobody really knows.
I would encourage debate about people around you who have different beliefs etc and why and find a way to explain that we all are human in essence and that as we learn about different faiths and science we can make informed opinions. I think in your case it is important that if they go to the religious events they know they can remain critical and that they see it as an education (together with what they learn at school). Also try to agree with your partner that the children will not belong to a religion until they are old enough to make a choice since they are so lucky to have parents with different takes. They may become more tolerant and philosophical as a result!
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