What do people think about the Electoral Commission report today about collusion (cheating) of the Leave campaign?

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GuyD73
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What do people think about the Electoral Commission report today about collusion (cheating) of the Leave campaign?

Postby GuyD73 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:12 pm

Well this is getting interesting isn't it? 

The report is here but I'll give you a precis to save you reading it. Vote Leave, Leave EU, Darren Grimes, Matthew Elliot and many others, cheated and then repeatedly lied or attempted to evade the Commission's enquiry. Gove and Johnson were at daily briefings during the campaign, so it's difficult to imagine how they could not have known about all of it. 

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/_ ... ritain.pdf

To my mind, this completely invalidates the result of the EU ref and makes it very clear we need much stronger regulations (and stronger institutions to enforce them) to make sure our democracy isn't subverted again. 

I implore you all to write to your MP with your views on this - how can we possibly go through with Brexit when it's now crystal that the vote was not free and fair?  

Justine Greening in Putney has now come out in support of a People's Vote, but Marsha de Cordova in Battersea is still holding to the Labour leadership's dishonest fudge of a position and 'respecting the result' and Stephen Hammond in Wimbledon, while having the courage to occasionally vote against govt, blinked at a crucial moment on the meaningful vote amendment, so needs further encouragement. 

There's a petition you might to sign here too

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/223729

A few articles...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ion-brexit

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44856992

Contact details for a few SW London MPs - please email them, do it now, include your address, so they know you're a constituent. 

Justine GreeningTel: 020 7219 8300Email: greeningj@parliament.uk
Marsha de Cordova 
MP for Battersea
Shadow Minister for Disabled People
marsha.decordova.mp@parliament.uk 
House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA
0207 219 0209 



 Stephen Hammond MPMember of Parliament for Wimbledon  House of CommonsLondonSW1A 0AA 020 7219 1029/3401 Stephen.hammond.mp@parliament.uk www.stephenhammond.net
 
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Manalive
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Re: What do people think about the Electoral Commission report today about collusion (cheating) of the Leave campaign?

Postby Manalive » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:44 pm

Leave won by 51.9% to 48.1%. About 17.4m votes to 16.1m votes.

If the Leave campaign hadn't spent the extra £0.5m, do you think that 600,000 people would have voted for Remain, rather than Leave, so that Remain would have won?
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chorister
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Re: What do people think about the Electoral Commission report today about collusion (cheating) of the Leave campaign?

Postby chorister » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:23 am

What I think (and I'm a fully paid up Remoaner who still hopes we don't leave) is that we should take a deep breath and let the law take its course.  There is absolutely no evidence that the result would have been different if Vote Leave and BeLeave had not collaborated, and what we need now is to focus on somehow healing the ghastly divisions that have emerged.

Calling for the referendum to be invalidated or re-run will not contribute to that.  Calling for a second referendum on the deal is, in my opinion, fair enough and the only legitimate way of getting Brexit reversed.
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tooposhtopush
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Re: What do people think about the Electoral Commission report today about collusion (cheating) of the Leave campaign?

Postby tooposhtopush » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:27 am

We need another referendum.
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sloaney donkey
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Re: What do people think about the Electoral Commission report today about collusion (cheating) of the Leave campaign?

Postby sloaney donkey » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:19 pm

Sore losers

Just like the buddy who loses a toss and says “best of three?”

Accept it
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windmill26
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Re: What do people think about the Electoral Commission report today about collusion (cheating) of the Leave campaign?

Postby windmill26 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:45 pm

Sloaney Pony wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:19 pm
Sore losers

Just like the buddy who loses a toss and says “best of three?”

Accept it
 
I don't think we should accept anything that was blatantly based on lies,misinformation and obviously cheating.
 
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GuyD73
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Re: What do people think about the Electoral Commission report today about collusion (cheating) of the Leave campaign?

Postby GuyD73 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:48 pm

If Vote leave’s appeal fails then there’s no doubt they broke the law and the result is illegitimate. This isn’t sore losing fgs, it’s our democracy being subverted by cheating, the result cannot stand. I agree with the earlier poster that the only way to change it is to declare it void, extend article 50 and put the any deal the EU can actually agree to, to the people in the form of a vote on that deal. Personally i’m looking forward to the criminal prosecutions being considered and Elliot, Cummings, Gove and Johnson being in the dock. How anyone thinks a democratic result achieved by cheating goves a mandate for Brexit is beyond me...
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chorister
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Re: What do people think about the Electoral Commission report today about collusion (cheating) of the Leave campaign?

Postby chorister » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:40 pm

I agree with the earlier poster that the only way to change it is to declare it void, extend article 50 …. 
If it's me that you are agreeing with, then, even as a Remoaner, I certainly did NOT say declare it void.  Even though I think the law should take its course with regard to the individuals involved I don't think Vote Leave's overspending changed the result one jot.

I do though think that in a democracy people should be allowed to change their minds, and that in this case there is so much more information n the likely consequences now available that it is not unreasonable to give them the chance to do so; I hope that will happen.
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LP73
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Re: What do people think about the Electoral Commission report today about collusion (cheating) of the Leave campaign?

Postby LP73 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:45 pm

Just leave it be.
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Re: What do people think about the Electoral Commission report today about collusion (cheating) of the Leave campaign?

Postby Scottov » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:14 am

I’ll just leave this here

Government's pro-EU publicity blitz gave Remain an unfair advantage in the referendum, report suggests
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... 8sMpqw12TX

And maybe

https://dominiccummings.com/2018/07/22/ ... nder-oath/
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Re: What do people think about the Electoral Commission report today about collusion (cheating) of the Leave campaign?

Postby Scottov » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:21 am

windmill26 wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:45 pm
Sloaney Pony wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:19 pm
Sore losers

Just like the buddy who loses a toss and says “best of three?”

Accept it
 
I don't think we should accept anything that was blatantly based on lies,misinformation and obviously cheating.
 

Speaking of lies...

How’s the immediate economic crash working out for you? That 4.5k per household loss is really starting to bite huh?

Maybe George Osborne’s emergency austerity budget softened the blow

Finished digging your WWIII shelter yet?

And who can forget when Alan Johnson claimed that 2/3rds of manufacturing jobs were dependent on EU demand, when it was really 17%. That huge rise is unemployment makes sense now ;)
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wannabeMaryBerry
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Re: What do people think about the Electoral Commission report today about collusion (cheating) of the Leave campaign?

Postby wannabeMaryBerry » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:56 am

For me the utter lies told by the Leave Campaign should invalidate the referendum. At the very least now the actual cost of Brexit are clear we need a second referendum.

Just to recap some of the points

We were not told of the £39 billion leaving bill
We were told we would have new trade deals (where are they?)
We were told Financial Services would still be able to access the EU.
We were told there would be a Brexit Dividend (£350m/week for the NHS)
We were told that the EU would be desperate for a deal

We were not told that the costs of increased customs clearance alone would cost the UK £20Billion a year (more than we currently pay to the EU)

It is estimated that we on average will be worse off to the tune of £1,500 to £3,500 a year worse off because of Brexit. 

Time is very short to reverse this decision
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wannabeMaryBerry
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Re: What do people think about the Electoral Commission report today about collusion (cheating) of the Leave campaign?

Postby wannabeMaryBerry » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:07 am

Scottov wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:21 am
Speaking of lies...

How’s the immediate economic crash working out for you? That 4.5k per household loss is really starting to bite huh?

Maybe George Osborne’s emergency austerity budget softened the blow

Finished digging your WWIII shelter yet?

And who can forget when Alan Johnson claimed that 2/3rds of manufacturing jobs were dependent on EU demand, when it was really 17%. That huge rise is unemployment makes sense now ;) 

We have gone from having the fastest growing economy in the G7 to having the slowest growing economy in the G7, and we have not even left yet. https://www.ft.com/content/4f4f022e-420 ... 5c97e6fd0b

Banks are shifting jobs to Europe and that will only accelerate now that it is clear they will loose their passporting rights.

But there are many more jobs to go. For example, the UK will leave EASA, so British built aircraft parts will no longer be certified by them. The CAA does not have the budget, staff or expertise to take over. This could result if UK registered aircraft not being able to fly after Brexit but it will mean that British companies will have to send jobs abroad so their parts can be certified. Rolls Royce is doing this now. There are 1 million Britons employed in Aerospace. 
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Scottov
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Re: What do people think about the Electoral Commission report today about collusion (cheating) of the Leave campaign?

Postby Scottov » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:28 am

wannabeMaryBerry wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:56 am
For me the utter lies told by the Leave Campaign should invalidate the referendum. At the very least now the actual cost of Brexit are clear we need a second referendum.

Just to recap some of the points

We were not told of the £39 billion leaving bill
We were told we would have new trade deals (where are they?)

We were told Financial Services would still be able to access the EU.
We were told there would be a Brexit Dividend (£350m/week for the NHS)
We were told that the EU would be desperate for a deal

We were not told that the costs of increased customs clearance alone would cost the UK £20Billion a year (more than we currently pay to the EU)

It is estimated that we on average will be worse off to the tune of £1,500 to £3,500 a year worse off because of Brexit. 

Time is very short to reverse this decision

Sorry, what are you talking about? You’ve made some of that up

What £20bn customs clearance?????

The £39bn is not legally payable and there are trading partners lining up to do deals. Where have you been?

Etc
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Scottov
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Re: What do people think about the Electoral Commission report today about collusion (cheating) of the Leave campaign?

Postby Scottov » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:30 am

wannabeMaryBerry wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:07 am
Scottov wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:21 am
Speaking of lies...

How’s the immediate economic crash working out for you? That 4.5k per household loss is really starting to bite huh?

Maybe George Osborne’s emergency austerity budget softened the blow

Finished digging your WWIII shelter yet?

And who can forget when Alan Johnson claimed that 2/3rds of manufacturing jobs were dependent on EU demand, when it was really 17%. That huge rise is unemployment makes sense now ;) 

We have gone from having the fastest growing economy in the G7 to having the slowest growing economy in the G7, and we have not even left yet. https://www.ft.com/content/4f4f022e-420 ... 5c97e6fd0b

Banks are shifting jobs to Europe and that will only accelerate now that it is clear they will loose their passporting rights.

But there are many more jobs to go. For example, the UK will leave EASA, so British built aircraft parts will no longer be certified by them. The CAA does not have the budget, staff or expertise to take over. This could result if UK registered aircraft not being able to fly after Brexit but it will mean that British companies will have to send jobs abroad so their parts can be certified. Rolls Royce is doing this now. There are 1 million Britons employed in Aerospace. 

Ah... the old my last prediction failed to come true but don’t you worry my next guess will trick lol
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