Suspect Party Wall Surveyor Post Reply

[gander0]

Hi all, If anyone has any expertise in the following I would appreciate any advice. We  currently have a kitchen conversion including side return proposal in for planning permission with Merton council. The side return will extend to the half way point of the party wall with our neighbours. Foundations will need to be dug along the boundary line. A couple of weeks ago I got a letter from a party wall surveyor informing me that he had been appointed by my neighbours. I have not as of yet issued a party wall notice as I was waiting for the outcome of the application. Initially I thought the appointment of the surveyor by my neighbour wasn't a bad thing and that I could potentially use the same surveyor for the party wall award. After (very little) research however I have discovered that the surveyor has a dubious track record and pretty much no positive feedback. I spoke with my neighbours yesterday first to confirm they had appointed this surveyor and second to raise my concerns about their appointed surveyor. I think however it will be unlikely that they will change surveyor now.


My queries are:
 Are they now tied in to using this surveyor? Is that fact that they signed before receiving a notice a factor? What are my options if they go ahead with a dodgy surveyor? Can he pretty much charge whatever he likes with me footing the bill? I presume I would have to hire an alternative surveyor just to mitigate any against any decisions my neighbours surveyor makes? Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Many thanks

[dudette]

Yes you definitely need your own surveyor. I don't understand why they've appointed someone before you've had the result of the application - as I assume you don't either! I would due your due diligence and get a good surveyor and maybe he/she can help sort out the problem.

[BuildingABC]

Hi Gander0, 

There is a procedure to follow in the Party Wall etc Act 1996. The act isn't invoked unless you have served formal notices of your proposed works so whilst they may have signed a contract with their surveyor he/she is not yet appointed under the PWeA. 

Side returns are not generally complicated (if no basements exist or unusual/unsafe structures are involved) and shouldn't need more than an Agreed Surveyor (one surveyor acting for both parties) to draw up an award.

Your neighbour needs to consider that only reasonable fees are due (it is not a licence to print money). They too must mitigate expenses or they may find themselves having to pay excess fees over and above what is a reasonable sum of money for the work executed in the event they demand you use their more expensive surveyor without good reason.  I would certainly consider demanding fee scales from neighbours surveyor in advance of serving any Notices so as to make them aware you intend to monitor such things closely.

There are quite a few concerns about PW surveyors on here so my advice is to go to someone local and make sure the notices you serve are valid.

Try Jeremy Clarke (MRICS) at www.SWLondonPartywalls.co.uk. 020 38 58 78 88. 

 

[gander0]

Thanks Dudette, Building ABC,

Sounds like I need to pay the extra cash for another surveyor to cover myself.

ABC, Will definitely look into Jeremy Clarke, thanks for the recommendation.

 

[boonkoh]

Oh dear,i think you are in for quite a bit of trouble.

Likely after your application  which is public, the opportunistic party wall surveyor cold called your neighbour. Your neighbour, probably hearing about the works for the first time gets worried, and on the promise of a free party wall surveyor, agreed to use them. 

Of course your neighbour cannot officially appoint a party wall surveyor till you serve notice. 

I would talk to the neighbour. Try to agree to share a PW surveyor, to save cost but also make it more efficient and less stressful for everyone. But if they insist to have their own, try to steer them away from appointing this cowboy. 

Because this cowboy PW surveyor will hit you with high fees, and post works likely raise objections no matter what to get more fees paid in the dispute. Alternatively having stung you for the initial fees, they might all but disappear and sign off any works, even if they cause damage to the neighbour, to minimise their work as they've made the easy money already. 

[sloaney donkey]

Hi,

The party wall process is kicked off by YOU and not your neighbour. You must serve a specifically worded notice onto your neighbour. So if you have not issued a notice, then you will pay no fees to this surveyor unless you proceed.

Any reputable party wall surveyor should know this, and this kind of action leads me to believe they may be under-qualified, dishonest about their capabilities etc.

What happens is that various unscrupulous outfits search planning applications and send letters to your neighbours offering their services. Some may be honest. But it is a bit like “no win no fee” PPI type people in many cases.

You could call the bluff (if you really hate your neighbours) by telling your neighbour you do not intend to go ahead. Doubtless the party wall surveyors contract will say that your neighbour pays the fee (after all, you have not started the legal process). And the leech will be on your neighbours back for money and not yours (that will teach them !!!).

Or you could talk to your neighbour and explain that he/she has:- (a) possibly fallen foul of something they do not understand and which you will pay for and where the quality could well be low if they haven’t checked credentials; (b) can get out of it by saying they will not proceed with the works with this surveyor; and (c) pick a reputable outfit (ideally just signing off on your own surveyors form).

If they insist on using this surveyor, push back heavily. Call the surveyor to “warn” them that you will not pay a penny more. Basically shake them down. Criticise the fees. Email, phone, use a lawyers letter, etc. They do not want the expense of going to court to explain why their fee is c3x yours.

Once the works are done, post links and reviews “naming and shaming” the surveyor with any factual issues you can find that she’s them in a poor light. That would help others avoid them.

All the best

SP

[BuildingABC]

Hi Gander0

I'd like to add a note of caution.  Firstly the reason for the Party Wall Act date back to the Great Fire of London. This is why you have parapet walls and your sash windows are inset by 4 inches. We live in close proximity to each other and have a responsibilility for ensuring each others safety.  Risk of fire is very real. Stopping it coming through your walls whilst you sleep is not a PPI type activity.

The professionals charged with putting in place such measures as the act dictates must act reasonably.  Most surveyors operate in small partnerships and not the glass walled offices of the City of London with entire floors full of PPI advisors reading scripts.

You need a professional acting reasonably and with knowledge of the process. Having lived in the area since the days when a house on Morella Road could be had for under £60k I am aware of how much it has changed. Despite that I do not advocate escalating any dispute with neighbours.  They have the same rights over the Party Wall as you yourself do, co-operating and doing so with consideration and politely will save you a considerable sum of money. Please bear in mind that next year they may be carrying out works and it will be you needing cooperation.

I have made enquiries:
1) a sensible award between two neighbours using an agreed surveyor can be done for £1k
2) a full blown acrimonious PW dispute could cost you £3-4k. 
3) not having a professional involved could cost you £hundreds of thousands if they damage your house

Personally I'd rather spend the spare £2-3k in the Carribean than on a neighbourly dispute.  I most definitely wouldnt risk my house by not engaging a professional.

I also learnt that most notices served by householders are so badly worded it renders them invalid.  Any dodgy PW surveyor will make a meal of this and charge accordingly.
 

[gander0]

Many thanks for your replies Boonkoh, Sloaney Pony and Building ABC.

I have talked to the neighbours and raised my doubts on the surveyor. I gave them some printed information with some of the negative feedback to digest.

I don't think this will sway them to change surveyor to be honest. They have now formally objected to my planning application and I feel are wholehearted against any work being carried out.

They have been there a long time, and I can understand their concerns but I have made a lot of concessions to appease them which will add a lot of expense to the project. (Lowering wall height to 2 metres which will be the same height as the current fence line with trellace. In doing so we would have to excavate and create step internally. New wall will be behind existing fence.)
 
I believe the main aspect of the work on the party wall will be the fact we have to add foundations on our half of the boundary line?

Now that cooperation seems out of the question it looks like I can expect to spend a minimum of 2K on surveyors fees.

Will wait and see what the out come of the planning application is before I proceed with anything
 

[Tony C]

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