Belleville catchment area

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KatherineHepburn
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Re: Belleville catchment area

Postby KatherineHepburn » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:09 am

I'm not sure 1000m would be enough. We've all seen what's been happening to property prices in this area.
We can't penalise the children just because the parents may be priced out of the market :(
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Mrs Doubtfire
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Re: Belleville catchment area

Postby Mrs Doubtfire » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:20 am

First of all, it has nothing to do with being priced out housing market or being rich or poor which I suppose is the next argument. If people game the system to their advantage it obviously have negative implications for other children. That has to stop. We can't let greedy, selfish parents spoil other children's futures for their own children's benefit.

There are of course situations that requires exemptions but in general I think children should go to school where they live.
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KatherineHepburn
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Re: Belleville catchment area

Postby KatherineHepburn » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:33 am

Even if that means removing a child from the school she is at and disrupting her/his education? I'm sorry but I disagree.
Yes, tighten up on people using addresses they don't live at, renting only for 6 months in catchment..all the hopping in and out activities.
But keep the sibling policy as it makes sense and works for many parents.
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supergirl
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Re: Belleville catchment area

Postby supergirl » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:37 am

I think there should be 2 priority areas like at Beatrix Potter. If it works there (and house prices are as high as in BTC) for parents and siblings alike, it CAN work for Belleville and Honeywell (and those who disagree have probably a vast interest for the situation to stay the same).

Is Bennerley rd in the catchment for BV? Out of curiosity. Thx.
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KatherineHepburn
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Re: Belleville catchment area

Postby KatherineHepburn » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:58 am

You should be fine with Bennerley Road :)
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tgjmummy
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Re: Belleville catchment area

Postby tgjmummy » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:00 am

There has to be a priority area for BTC set up. It has been clear for a while that there is a blackspot for schools south of Broomwood Road but the lack of transparency with the "street-lit walking distance" meant it was hard to document. The straightline distance means it can now been easily plotted on a map. I saw some figures that showed that 20 plus reception places for HW and BW go to siblings who live 500m and beyond each year. Some as far as Tooting and Fulham. The catchment for HW has not been 500m for a long time, so even a generous priority area of 500m for siblings would not seem to be unreasonable. It is not a case of being snobby about Highview and Falconbrook, there are five (probably more if you include Earlsfield) schools closer to many of us BTC that we cannot get into because of the crazy situation with BV and HW. The overlap of the catchments of the two schools also does not help. It is hard to prevent people renting and there are genuine reasons why people do rent. However, you can certainly make it less attractive by removing the currently unrestricted sibling priority. With a catchment of 200m, nobody should be driving to HW but I can guarantee the roads will still be blocked with traffic.
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mgb
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Re: Belleville catchment area

Postby mgb » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:50 pm

KatherineHepburn wrote:Even if that means removing a child from the school she is at and disrupting her/his education? I'm sorry but I disagree.
Yes, tighten up on people using addresses they don't live at, renting only for 6 months in catchment..all the hopping in and out activities.
But keep the sibling policy as it makes sense and works for many parents.
I'm sorry but I totally disagree with this.

Where I grew up you went to school where you lived. If your parents moved, you moved schools. No ones education was disrupted. That's a dramatic statment. You just changed schools. And because it was a common and accepted practice we looked forward to starting the school year and making new friends. It also meant we went to school with people who lived locally.
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DaisyLady
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Re: Belleville catchment area

Postby DaisyLady » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:06 pm

I agree that siblings need to go to the same school. But something needs to be done about people who rent in the area for 6-12months and then move out of the catchment area. If we had priority area like Beatrix potter this would discourage people from doing this. Why don't people go to their local school? I will find my self walking with my children 1.5miles to a school passing people who have rented to get a place then returned to a property they previously owned or have bought since they were offered a place. The council says it is very difficult to stop this unless people name and shame. Apparently to do so you have to give your name and address which many people are reluctant to do as presumably it would be naming and shaming friends. Has anyone named and shamed and what happened? I have never heard of anybody actually losing a school place yet know of plenty of people who have played the system
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KatherineHepburn
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Re: Belleville catchment area

Postby KatherineHepburn » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:57 pm

Mgb - I changed school loads during my primary years as my parents moved a fair bit with work and I hated it. Always being the new girl, repeating projects, missing chunks of education it was depressing and difficult. So I guess I'm looking at this fairly personally, which might be inappropriate.

A thought though. How would the Wix parents get on? The distance used to be approx 1700m. Then the following year 700 odd. I guess it is smaller again this year. If they lived at around 1600m from school with their first child, then with a new distance related sibling policy their other children won't get in. And they didn't even move. I wonder how that would work?
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papinian
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Re: Belleville catchment area

Postby papinian » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:11 pm

Some of the posts on this thread are misguided, or even self-serving, in suggesting that it is not sibling preference that is the problem but rather temporary renting.

However, the sibling preference encourages temporary renting. If parents had to rent for a year ahead of each child being admitted they would be less likely to do so than if they have to do it again for each child. It's also easier to do the temporary move thing when all children are 4 or less than when they're older (need more space, have more stuff to move, etc.)

In any case, some of those doing the temporary renting are living BTC in the first place and move to get even nearer the relevant school.

Priority areas for sibling admissions are the way to deal with the problem:

- Honeywell has a priority admissions Zone A
- Belleville has a priority admissions Zone B
- Zones A and B don't overlap so BTC is divided up between them.
Let's say that everything in the quadrant bounded by Nightingale Lane, Bolingbroke Grove, Clapham Common and Battersea Rise is in Zone A or Zone B.
- Admissions to Honeywell and Belleville are then done as follows:
(1) Those living in either Zone A or Zone B who already have a sibling at the school.
(2) Those living in the BTC zone for the school (Zone A for Honeywell, Zone B for Belleville) that do not already have a sibling at the school, in order of straight-line distance from the relevant school.
(3) Those living in the the BTC zone for the other school that do not already have a sibling at the school, in order of straight-line distance from the relevant school (e.g. if looking at Honeywell admissions look at those living in Zone B who do not already have a sibling at Honeywell).
(4) Those living outside of Zone A and Zone B who already have a sibling in the school, in order of straight-line distance from the relevant school.
(5) Those living outside of Zone A and Zone B who do not have a sibling in the school, in order of straight-line distance from the relevant school.

Of course, as I said in my earlier post, the problem is that Belleville is an academy so can have whatever admissions policy it wants!
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livegreen
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Re: Belleville catchment area

Postby livegreen » Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:45 pm

Unfortunately the reality is that there are not enough places BTC for all of the children that have Honeywell and Belleville as their closest schools.
The vast majority of primary schools in the country use straight line distance and sibling policy as this enables most children to attend their local school.
There is no space for either Belleville or Honeywell to expand so there will always be disappointed families, for whom these are their closest local school but they cannot get it.
Wix has improved quickly is is now also in demand.
The next 2 closest High View and Alderbrook do have capacity but need to up their game so that they too offer the great all round education, extra curriculum, community feel, PTFA, etc etc currently offered by both B and H.
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stayathomemuminsw11
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Re: Belleville catchment area

Postby stayathomemuminsw11 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:40 am

The simple fact is, there are not enough state primary school places BTC. No matter what the council puts in place, some children are always going to miss out. It's not right, or fair, but I don't think there is a perfect solution.

The problem with introducing Priority areas 1 and 2 BTC is that there would almost certainly be enough children in Priority area 1 to fill all the places, so kids in Priority area 2 would still miss out. This was one of the concerns when the consultation was done on this for Belleville.

As for the sibling policy-yes there are people who play the system, but what happens if you own (or genuinely rent) a house in the catchment area for your first child, then move out because of lack of space or whatever, you move further than the tiny 232 metres for Honeywell this year, or 276 for Belleville, but are say, 400 metres away, and BV or HW is still your closest school?! Should the sibling still not be allowed to attend?

It is a really difficult one-and it's almost impossible to make everyone happy... The reality is, we need more school places (primary and secondary) and there isn't enough space to build them. What's worse is the increased number of flats/houses being built BTC means that there is an even greater demand for school places.

Also I think part of the reason BV and HW 'catchments' have got even smaller this year is because less people have taken up private school places... maybe.
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MGMidget
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Re: Belleville catchment area

Postby MGMidget » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:09 pm

Having observed the pattern with particular interest this year since my son was going into reception, there is quite a pattern of house moves in the year or so immediately after the first child has secured a place at the desired school. I don't think this is just coincidence. It's calculated moves out of temporary rented accommodation into a permanent home a few hundred metres away but out of the normal catchment. Unfortunately the extent to which it seems to happen overshadows any more genuine, natural moves that may happen later when a family outgrows the existing long term home.

Priority zones would help to reduce this but not eliminate it unless the zones are as tiny as the area where reception offers are made. I certainly don't think they need to be 1000m if the original catchment is say around 250m!

I don't see how you can change things at Honeywell or Belleville though since I believe both have protected themselves from enforced changes to their admissions procedures. Existing parents and parent-governors will want to maintain the status quo, surely? That was pretty apparent when it was looked at before.
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jonseyjo
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Re: Belleville catchment area

Postby jonseyjo » Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:53 pm

Interesting article in the daily mail regarding school cheaters. Why they would want to go public about this I don't know.

I do wonder though. do people ever get reported?
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actuallyadad
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Re: Belleville catchment area

Postby actuallyadad » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:15 am

Winsham Grove was in the Belleville catchment in 2015
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