Thomas's Clapham, Streatham and Clapham Prep offers

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dudette
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Re: Thomas's Clapham, Streatham and Clapham Prep offers

Postby dudette » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:25 am

Re scholarships you're not comparing like with like. Firstly, Thomas's doesn't have 80 kids in each year, and secondly approximately 20-25 kids leave at the end of Year 6 to go to day schools and the rest stay to year 8 with most of those boarding, which is a completely different kettle of fish from Hornsby where all the kids leave at 11. Also I haven't got the numbers to hand but Thomas's got loads of scholarships last year (it was their best year ever) so I'm not sure where you're getting your figures from. I suggest the OP gives more weight to people whose kids are at the schools rather than rely on hearsay from others!
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DonJ
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Re: Thomas's Clapham, Streatham and Clapham Prep offers

Postby DonJ » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:31 am

It seems that both schools may be suffering unfairly from reputations (and I'd be lying if I said it hasn't affected my perception of them)- it's exactly why it's so useful to hear the responses of people with children at the schools themselves!
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sofiatheseventh
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Re: Thomas's Clapham, Streatham and Clapham Prep offers

Postby sofiatheseventh » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:47 am

Well I got the figures from the Thomas' website (2015 figures as they don't seem to have published 2016 yet) and they include both 11+ and 13 leavers. The Broomwood figures also cover leavers at both points. Surely broadly comparable at least?

As for the 80 kids per year again from Thomas' website which says "We have four forms in our Reception year, with 20 children in each class, making a year group of approximately 80 children." I'd assumed they therefore had a similar number up until yr 6 at least.

I have nothing against Thomas' - it seems a great school.

It sounds like the OP's main reason for possibly choosing it over another school which she seems to have had a better gut feel for (don't know much about the junior section of S&C so can't comment there) would be it's reputation for being stronger academically than other schools. In which case it seems sensible to question whether that is actually the case based on the information the school has made public.

FWIW I think most of the independent schools around here are actually broadly similar academically (unless you look further afield to JAPs, KCJS etc...) so I'd go with your gut feel about where your child will be happiest.
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dudette
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Re: Thomas's Clapham, Streatham and Clapham Prep offers

Postby dudette » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:17 pm

I've just looked at the website and can't see the figures you're referring to, but according to the head's blog the Year 8 kids alone got 32 scholarships to senior schools last academic year - and bear in mind that children doing boarding in Year 8 only apply to one school so they're not picking up a clutch from various schools as they do in Year 6.

Anyway, this is a bit of a pointless discussion as you can't measure the value of a school by the number of scholarships it gets, or even by the destination schools that the kids go on to. You also can't really expect to get a measure of a school by asking a bunch of opinionated Nappy Valley Netters, some of whom are making judgements based on nothing at all. If the OP isn't sure then she should find some parents at the schools to talk to, and go and see the heads and have a proper chat.
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DonJ
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Re: Thomas's Clapham, Streatham and Clapham Prep offers

Postby DonJ » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:58 pm

I am indeed doing exactly that - and the responses here have been very useful from a myth-busting perspective, as many nappy valley netters do have children at the schools in question!
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lolaloves
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Re: Thomas's Clapham, Streatham and Clapham Prep offers

Postby lolaloves » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:33 am

It's very interesting that Thomas's have now made their leavers destinations even more vague. Look at their site now, just a list of schools between 2013-2016 with no numbers. Anecdotally there seem to be a few parents turning down places this year over concerns over size and pastoral care. It's a great marketing machine and no doubt a good place for very confident children but some friends of ours have had one child managed out, a sibling, can you imagine?? Anyway, good luck with your decision I am sure your dd will thrive wherever she goes.
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Flowermummy
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Re: Thomas's Clapham, Streatham and Clapham Prep offers

Postby Flowermummy » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:08 am

We are also trying to decide between Thomas's Clapham and another school for our ds.
We had a good feeling about Thomas's but I am now worried about lovaloves comments re. a sibling being managed out (as we have a younger sibling too) - how do they manage someone out??

I too have seen the very bizzare info re. leavers destinations ... all the other 3 Thomas's schools (Battersea, etc) are still publishing detailed leavers destinations, with no of pupils. I am hoping the vague info is only temporary, while they update their 2016 results!!
Ultimately though, by the time our children leave the school these stats will be approx. 9 years old, so largely irrelevant...

Re. parents turning down places - for 2015, I heard that about half of the places offered to non-siblings were turned down and given to people on the waiting list. I have no idea how this compares to other schools, but people do turn down Thomas's despite the perception of the school being as the hardest one to get into in this area.
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Abbmun
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Re: Thomas's Clapham, Streatham and Clapham Prep offers

Postby Abbmun » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:05 pm

Obviously the publishing of results is a side issue here, but ny understanding after enquiring is that Thomas's Clapham are not publishing a breakdown of leavers destinations by schools / offers etc this year as they feel parents find it difficult to digest this information. When every other school in Clapham publishes this information very visibly (as have the other Thomas's) it does make it harder to get a feel for split of 11 vs 13 plus, day vs boarding etc which does in turn impact your decision in terms of your long term plans.
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Flowermummy
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Re: Thomas's Clapham, Streatham and Clapham Prep offers

Postby Flowermummy » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:45 pm

"parents find it difficult to digest this information"?? WOW, that's patronising!
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sofiatheseventh
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Re: Thomas's Clapham, Streatham and Clapham Prep offers

Postby sofiatheseventh » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:26 pm

Wow - that's really interesting. The leavers info has changed just this week and the details I quoted further up the thread (which were taken from two pdfs giving 11+ and 13+ results for 2015) have now co-incidentally disappeared. Very curious indeed.

Prep schools have always lived or died by their results so the fact that Thomas' don't want theirs known is quite telling.
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Flowermummy
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Re: Thomas's Clapham, Streatham and Clapham Prep offers

Postby Flowermummy » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:40 pm

It can only mean that the 2016 were quite bad (if they were good it would make no sense to change the policy of publishing detailed results).
I think it's an ill advised move on their side and they will probably get negative feedback on this and end up publishing the 2016 results.
Thankfully I too had seen their 2015 results (which in fact were for 2015, 2014, 2013), so I have a good idea of the leavers destinations. A bad year in terms of results wouldn't put me off (can happen to any school), but the decision not to show detailed results worries me a bit as it shows ill judgement and a bit of arrogance (in my opinion)....
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Paddy123
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Re: Thomas's Clapham, Streatham and Clapham Prep offers

Postby Paddy123 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:09 pm

Our daughter will be starting school in 2018 and I really hope she gets into Thomas’s. I'm normally happy lurking on NV but I really don’t understand all this Thomas’s bashing!

We looked around the school recently and were really impressed with it all.

Everyone I know with children at the school are extremely happy and have no issues. You only have to read the Headmaster’s blog to get a sense that that he is a decent chap that wants children to flourish (I have actually met him and spoke to him at great length so I’m not just taking it at face value).

The poster who wrote about a friend of a friend who knows ‘someone’ who has children being managed out. Please can you elaborate further – you can’t just make a statement like that, with a view to obviously put prospective parents off, without giving more detail. If you have constructive feedback and can explain what is happening that would be helpful.

RE the analysis on the school destination figures, agree this is annoying but they do have up until 2015 figures which give you a good idea. However, who knows what this will look like in 10 years time – for any of the local schools. I’m sure the feedback they receive will be helpful and they will return to a more transparent way of doing things.

Without wishing to be rude, I went to an Oxbridge university and feel that some of the comments on here are similar to the types of comments I used to get from people about why they didn’t go (I’ve heard people that go there are weird, sleep upside down, unfriendly, too uncool etc)! Unless you are part of/have been part of the system, culture and actually a parent at the school then hearsay is just gossip, not helpful and very DM.
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papinian
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Re: Thomas's Clapham, Streatham and Clapham Prep offers

Postby papinian » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:27 pm

Paddy123 wrote:Without wishing to be rude, I went to an Oxbridge university
So did I, and so did lots of posters on this site, but we don't feel the need to mention it when it has no relevance to what we post.
Paddy123 wrote:Unless you are part of/have been part of the system, culture and actually a parent at the school then hearsay is just gossip, not helpful and very DM.
I saw posters making comparisons between leavers' destinations on different schools' websites. That these schools are posting details of leavers' destinations shows that it is relevant. It's not hearsay - the information is posted by the schools themselves.

The original poster, and most posters who are choosing between schools, are looking to build up a comparative picture of different schools. If every poster says that the school their child(ren) attend is great that's not particularly helpful in that regard. For understandable reasons people are reluctant to talk about their own children being "managed out" but this does happen - it happened to a colleague's daughter at her prep school (not nappyvalley) even though she was the middle of three girls. Therefore, one most often hears of it secondhand.
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Paddy123
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Re: Thomas's Clapham, Streatham and Clapham Prep offers

Postby Paddy123 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:40 pm

Hi papinian, Been a great fan of yours for a while (not) - your posts are always vile so I'm thrilled not to have your support on this issue.

I don't believe in hearsay so I wont be swayed by tittle-tattle.
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sofiatheseventh
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Re: Thomas's Clapham, Streatham and Clapham Prep offers

Postby sofiatheseventh » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:42 pm

Paddy123 wrote:The poster who wrote about a friend of a friend who knows ‘someone’ who has children being managed out. Please can you elaborate further – you can’t just make a statement like that, with a view to obviously put prospective parents off, without giving more detail. If you have constructive feedback and can explain what is happening that would be helpful....
I don't think anyone mentioned 'friends of friends'. Myself and another poster have both said we have friends who feel this has happened to them (and I said feel because I am aware I only have the parent's perception of what happened). As you'll find once your daughter reaches school age, you'll end up knowing families with children in lots of local schools who will tell you about their experiences.

I don't want to say too much in case it makes them identifiable. In both cases the children were struggling academically. First family felt school had given up on their child who was losing self-confidence as a result. Parents arranged to meet the school to try and secure extra help. During the course of their discussion they mentioned they might consider moving child if things didn't improve (thinking this would put pressure on school to provide better support) to their surprise school said "yes great idea let us help you find somewhere for them".

Second family had a child who was also struggling academically. When they applied for a place for their younger child (who according to nursery head was a very smart cookie, no behavioural probs, outgoing etc..) no place was forthcoming.

Bromwood quite often has a few Thomas' kids join in Yrs 2 & 3 (although why it has the space for them is another issue...)

As for your 'Oxbridge' point I was there too and have never come cross anyone who has suggested we might have slept upside down :o Both my children had offers for Thomas' (and I'm sure would have been happy there) so it's not sour grapes.

Anyway, feel free to believe me or not, up to you, but you will witness it happening if your daughter gets that longed for offer.

And if you aren't interested in "tittle-tattle" then I'm not sure you are in the right place!
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