NSL fly tipping fines on behalf of Wandsworth Council Post Reply

[GreenLady]

We received a fine for £400 from NSL a company subcontracted by Wandsworth Council to prosecute fly tippers. It was our recycling bag that « somehow » left our porch and travelled 4 doors down our road. A recycled delivery box had our name and address. We asked our councillor to appeal on our behalf as we had no intention of fly tipping in our own street and have been here for 18 years diligently managing our refuse and recycling in a responsible way. The councillor received no reply from NSL and we have been threatened with legal action by NSL.
They manage similar schemes for 60 other councils in England.
This seems very aggressive on the part of NSL. We discovered our bag within hours and took it off the street.
Has anyone had this experience ?
It does not seem like penalising local residents in this way is going to prevent fly tipping. Interested to hear views.

[ronangel]

Write back to NSL stating that you did not place box there as it would have been pointless.persons unknown or the wind moved it, from your porch and you were not responsible. it is up to them to prove YOU put it there not for you to disprove (they have no photographic evidence or witness UN like dropping cigarette ends on camera) the fact it had your name and address on it from a package delivered to you would have made this even more less lightly.As far as you are concerned this is the end of the matter and if they wish to continue please issue court proceedings. This would be civil small claims court and they cannot claim any legal expenses if were to lose the case.but you could claim expenses if you win. It would not be in a court but in an office with an adjudicator (barrister) They will threaten all sorts of things but drop the matter before going to court as would be out of pocket and companies like this  like easy wins! These contracts from the council given to them were for people dumping truck loads of stuff not something like this which is an abuse of power,and a try on,as most people pay up.You cannot get CCJ  unless the court rules against you and you do not pay in 28 days nor send bailiffs unless did not pay as court ordered nothing before then.

[GreenLady]

Thank you for this advice we did write back and make these points and they agreed to reduce the fine but not cancel it. We asked the council for help and Jonathan Cook made numerous attempts to contact them and did not receive a reply. It seems astonishing that the council took this contract to deal with fly-tipping and that the wrong people are being fined and fly tipping is just as bad. Worse still the council have no power to veto nonsense fines. I am not sure we can take the stress of taking this on single handed which was why I posted to see if there are more seriously annoyed people like ourselves which might help us make a collective effort to pursuade the council to rethink this contract.

[Mls2023]

Email it to the ceo of wandsworth council. Plus every s8ngle person in his office, then in that depth or who cd be connected to rubbish in any way. Keep going u til u get a reply. I once did this, works wonders. Cc in local news too ....

[dimelda]

Green Lady:  Why did you throw out a box with your name and address on it ?!  Beyond obtuse.

[guestnappyvalley]

I received a £400 fine for a box with my name on it that was disposed of outside a charity shop (I'd taken the donation inside, so it was the charity shop who disposed of the box incorrectly). The irony is that I'd paid £250 that week to have waste taken away legally!!
NSL reduced the fine initially to £100 but wouldn't budge any further.
I contacted one of my local councillors and the fine was rescinded.
It's a complete shakedown outfit. Going around the streets looking for people's names on cardboard boxes will do nothing to stop actual fly-tipping.

[handbagsatdawn]

@Dimelda, how rude! The rubbish was IN a recycling bag.

I don't think that one is expected to scribble out one's name and address on any rubbish before they put it in a recycling bag to dispose of it. 

[dimelda]

To GuestNappyValley and Handbags at Dawn:  Incredibly, neither of you seem to link the disposing of bags, boxes, rubbish etc. with one's name & address on it with IDENTITY THEFT.  If you're not worried about Identity Theft, then so be it.   If you're not worried about £400 fines from Wandsworth Council, again, so be it.  I would be worried about both - & anyone with common sense would be.  No matter where you dispose of it, no matter what it's in (as in a recycling bag!), no matter to whom you give the box (as in a charity shop - fanciful if you thought the charity shop would erase your details which you should have done) ....  before disposal, the name & address on the packaging should always be cut out.  But, if you're not bothered, then just chuck out everything displaying your name & address - but don't moan when you're later a victim of Identity theft, or you're £400 the poorer.   Get a shredder, or shredding scissors.  It's not rocket science.

[guestnappyvalley]

@Dimelda, thanks for taking the time to write this long paragraph. I am very aware of identity theft. I pay to have my personal information shredded and always remove my name from parcels. On this occasion I forgot, because I am a human being. Have a great day. Enjoy the sun. Be happy. Take a breath.

[ronangel]

Do not pay them one penny! The fact they are backing down proves they have no case that would stand up in court! State you are willing to let a court decide.Believe me it will all go away as will cost them more money than any fine as they will have to have a solicitor there in case you come up with a point of law preventing them from doing this again setting a precedent case.And remember they cannot get solicitors fees back from you win or lose, nor will you have to pay them if lose  and you can claim expenses as is a small claims civil matter none starter from them and a try on!

[guestnappyvalley]

@GreenLady, when they reduced my fine to £100, they said they had "downgraded the offence", but they couldn't answer what the new offence was (i.e., if the £400 was for 'fly-tipping', then what is the £100 fine for? The offence must have a name in law). I would definitely push them on this point.

[Dontleaveitthere]

Seems like the law is being erroneously applied.
Where we are there is 'fly-tipping' in the sense of leaving stuff on pavement that is not serviceable and nobody would want eg a broken chair, a box of stuff on our wall. Anything. It literally happens all the time. I am not referring to the odd decent item which a passer-by can have.
Occasionally i have had to report it via council service online(the broken chair) as it didn't budge. It gets collected by council quickly. If you (rarely) see someone dumping stuff eg from their car then you can add detail.
But I agree this application of the rule/fine is utterly daft.

[SW18_Dad]

Small Claims Court rulings do not create a precedent.

It is highly likely they won’t even send anyone to the hearing or if they do it will be someone who isn’t legally qualified trying to bamboozle you to settle in the court steps because…..

I agree this is shakedown stuff based on statics mill evidence where rear gets have taken fly tipping as odd bits of rubbish.

Rubbish gets blown around - what can we say?

[Buddy99]

The council need to stop this bullying and extreme contract with NSL.
I also received a £400 letter from them say I had fly tipped.
A shoe box sized cardboard box with my name and address on on had been put, by a neighbour, by the council bin outside our front door without my knowledge. They thought they were helping, I had left it by our post boxes to remove when I came home, having opened a parcel on the way out the door.
I called them and they made me cry - I was so upset and worried as I could not afford to pay this and I hadn’t done anything.
The council managed to reduce it to a littering offence but I was still pretty annoyed to be honest!
They said it was my waste stream so the law says it’s my fault? I say in that case what about all the broken council cycle lane dividers that have littered our paceman for over a year and do not get removed. I have complained about them over and over and still they remain littering the pavement. I hate this labour council and will never be voting for these labour leaders in future.

[dimelda]

SW18_Dad :  Loved your post – if only I could understand it …!   But your last sentence is 100% spot on.  Rubbish DOES get blown around … sometimes miles from its source.   Which is why, before disposing of an empty box/carton, name & address details should always be removed.  Not just erased with a pen, but removed altogether – with a Stanley knife, scissors, whatever.   If that were done, there’d be fewer people tediously moaning on NappyValley about £400 fines levied by Wandsworth.