How I’m voting to Labour to Remain in Battersea and why I’ve done a tactical vote swap to help the Lib Dems.

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DavidT
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Re: How I’m voting to Labour to Remain in Battersea and why I’ve done a tactical vote swap to help the Lib Dems.

Postby DavidT » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:41 am

The First Past the Post system is completely broken and relatively undemocratic. https://www.makevotesmatter.org.uk/first-past-the-post
E.g. In 2017 SNP won 35 seats for 3% of the vote (and way way too much press) while LD won 12 seats for 7.4% of the vote. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2017/results
And it was much starker in previous elections (e.g. when UKIP took 13% of the vote).

There is also almost no point in voting under FPTP unless you live in a marginal constituency and only 20%-ish could be called anywhere near marginal.  Therefore vote swaping as suggested by @GuyD73 is a good way to attempt to place a meaningful vote. 

I did this at the last election via this site: https://www.swapmyvote.uk/ There may be others. I was able to communicate with the voter in another constituency (where my chosen party had a chance) and agree that we would vote for each other, thus making both our votes more meaningful.  The drawback is that you have to trust the other person!  But at least there is a hope one's vote could count for a change. :o
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GuyD73
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Re: How I’m voting to Labour to Remain in Battersea and why I’ve done a tactical vote swap to help the Lib Dems.

Postby GuyD73 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:20 am

Bookmummy, there's nothing hysterical about my comments or position, you don't address a single one of the issues about the vote's legitimacy, and that's because you have no decent response. Vote leave broke electoral law and lied through their teeth to the public, ergo it's illegitimate and provides zero mandate. That's why so many of us are fighting for a free and fair second referendum. 

I'm reminded of a grandmother who called into LBC in distress because she voted leave because of the 'extra money for the NHS'. Her grand-daughter, who's a nurse, now won't speak to her. So not only was the poor old lady conned, but her family has been torn apart by those lies too. Don't tell me she doesn't get the chance to change her mind, y'know, in the light of facts... 
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daddydaycarerocks
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Re: How I’m voting to Labour to Remain in Battersea and why I’ve done a tactical vote swap to help the Li

Postby daddydaycarerocks » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:11 am

I don't want to insult the electorate, but how Corbyn is polling 25%+ is beyond me.

Corbyn is gonna trainwreck the economy, buy up many organisations with money we don’t have (EG Openreach), abolish private schools (https://www.ft.com/content/33d09a76-dd6 ... 5a370481bc) ,  probably tax our Nappyvalley residents massively (inheritance, stamp duty increases, council tax changes), abolish everything British as well as his links with anti-Semitism and terrorist groups, yet he's still 25%+?

It’s Absolutely shameful that anyone can think of voting for a Labour Party, that today isn’t the Labour Party of recent times, in anything apart from name. (and it’s nowhere near the party of 1997).

Vote for who you actually want. If you don’t want anyone then don’t vote tactically, just don’t vote.
Last edited by daddydaycarerocks on Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fanofcats
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Re: How I’m voting to Labour to Remain in Battersea and why I’ve done a tactical vote swap to help the Lib Dems.

Postby fanofcats » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:58 am

What I know for sure is that when we crash out of the EU (sorry, leave) because Johnston has got back in at this election, our economy will take a nosedive as businesses flounder in the morass of muddle and complicated new & varied trade regulations which either exist or are still being negotiated for the next decade). The promised land of milk & honey won't materialise (except for the few mega wealthy forex entrepreneurs who can exploit the uncertainty) and miraculously it will be nigh on impossible to find anyone who voted Leave anymore. Far from being a majority openly accepting that the pain everyone else is enduring was down to their voting choice back in 2016, which they refused to put to a confirmatory vote, those individuals will deny they voted Leave and blame it all on someone else (other countries, lazy remoaners not pulling their weight or some such).

On the question of the validity of holding a second confirmatory referendum just look back to pre-2016 and you will see all the main Leave advocates (Farage, Johnston, Gove and Rees-Mogg) stated that a two votes would be necessary, the second ONCE THE TERMS WERE KNOWN.  Why has the tune changed now? 
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BrianP
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Re: How I’m voting to Labour to Remain in Battersea and why I’ve done a tactical vote swap to help the Lib Dems.

Postby BrianP » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:16 pm

Over the last three years I have not met a single person who has changed his or her mind about the merits of leaving the EU.  Everyone without exception has become more entrenched.  On forums like this, invitations for 'other people's opinions' are usually thinly disguised attempts to provoke an argument instead of reasoned debate, and generally end in puerile personal insults,  as we can all see above. For what it's worth,  a further referendum would simply be a repeat of the original. Democracy only works with the consent of the losers. I suppose if your preferred candidate fails to win the Battersea seat you could always try complaining that we didn't know what we were voting for, or that we got it wrong,  or that we should be given a chance to change our minds, or the other side cheated. Best of luck. In 2016 the country made a decision. Live with it.
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GuyD73
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Re: How I’m voting to Labour to Remain in Battersea and why I’ve done a tactical vote swap to help the Lib Dems.

Postby GuyD73 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:28 pm

So, just to briefly debunk some of this from Daddydaycarerocks – notwithstanding the fact the Labour manifesto is unlikely to include anything more towards private schools than a change in their tax status, where on earth do you get the “abolish everything British” from?

 Corbyn is gonna trainwreck the economy, buy up many organisations with money we don’t have (EG Openreach), abolish private schools, probably tax our Nappyvalley residents massively (inheritance, stamp duty increases, council tax changes), abolish everything British as well as his links with anti-Semitism and terrorist groups, yet he's still 25%+?

It’s Absolutely shameful that anyone can think of voting for a Labour Party, that today isn’t the Labour Party of recent times, in anything apart from name. (and it’s nowhere near the party of 1997).


 So…… in response to the above, let’s be clear about the political reality here and be honest about the probabilities. Corbyn will NOT get a majority, all the polling seems to suggest that, so you can vote for nice Fleur Anderson in Putney for example, share some Labour values like wanting a more equal society, while not liking Corbyn much at all and without risking a labour majority. That is the fact of the matter that I hope Putney residents are considering.

 And as for this comment, where on earth do you get the sense of entitlement to tell people what to do?



Vote for who you actually want. If you don’t want anyone then don’t vote tactically, just don’t vote.



 Thousands, if not millions of us will be vote swapping in the way I have, to achieve a desired political objective. In the absence of proportional representation it’s a way of making your vote count, and I commend it to the Nappyvalleynet community.   
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EarlGrey
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Re: How I’m voting to Labour to Remain in Battersea and why I’ve done a tactical vote swap to help the Lib Dems.

Postby EarlGrey » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:00 pm

Thanks for the vote swapping info GuyD73.

I have met Marsha de Cordova a number of times and she is full throttle for a People’s Vote and a great advocate of EU citizens rights.

If you want to Remain in the EU you need to vote Labour in Battersea. ALL the tactical voting sites, whether Labour or Liberal Democrat leaning, recommend voting Labour in Battersea to stop Brexit.

Have a look at this website bringing together all the recommendations from the pro-Remain tactical voting sites
https://tactical.vote/compare
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daddydaycarerocks
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Re: How I’m voting to Labour to Remain in Battersea and why I’ve done a tactical vote swap to help the Lib Dems.

Postby daddydaycarerocks » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:45 pm

But labour have not said they will cancel Brexit and the damage caused by a Corbyn government will be many many times worse than the worst possible Brexit.

Vote for who you want, the law of unintended consequences could come into play otherwise.
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NVHusband
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Re: How I’m voting to Labour to Remain in Battersea and why I’ve done a tactical vote swap to help the Lib Dems.

Postby NVHusband » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:17 pm

Pretty shameful behaviour Guy. It is no wonder you have been banned from a number of social media apps. 

So let me get this straight- you would rather have an Anti-Semite in No 10 leading a minority government than have a Tory government?

You’d rather have a leader who has shared a platform with extremists who have advocated genocide in order to Remain?

Will be nice if you thought about the fears of the Jewish people once in a while. A population that has been persecuted for centuries with religious harassment a common theme under this bigoted and militant Labour Party.
A Labour leadership that has seen a number of prominent Labour MPs resign because of their bigotry, criticised by Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Frank Field, by the Chief Rabbi for ”the Poison from the top” (also endorsed by the Archbishop of Canterbury) and investigated by the Human Rights Commission for their lack of action to stem anti-semitism.

Your post says more about you and your values than any lies written on the side of a bus.

Your moral compass beggars belief...
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Starr
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Re: How I’m voting to Labour to Remain in Battersea and why I’ve done a tactical vote swap to help the Lib Dems.

Postby Starr » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:57 am

Boris Johnson is a proven racist. Jeremy Corbyn isn't a racist but a consistently vocal critic of Israel as are many people not in politics given what we know and see happens to Palestinians.

The Labour party have pledged to end selling weapons to Israel and Saudi Arabia and give them military aid.


Enough said.
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Starr
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Re: How I’m voting to Labour to Remain in Battersea and why I’ve done a tactical vote swap to help the Lib Dems.

Postby Starr » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:01 am

Norman Finkelstein and David Graeber, both Jewish scholars, can enlighten you. Do search them on this matter. Also bear in mind Britain has a very violent history of " involvement" in the Middle East and for once we have a politician who going against that pattern.
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juliantenniscoach
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Re: How I’m voting to Labour to Remain in Battersea and why I’ve done a tactical vote swap to help the Lib Dems.

Postby juliantenniscoach » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:25 pm

Ok so I'm an ABC voter (anyone but Corbyn - who is a brexiteer anyway).  Who do I vote for in Battersea to avoid a Labour MP?
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GuyD73
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Re: How I’m voting to Labour to Remain in Battersea and why I’ve done a tactical vote swap to help the Lib Dems.

Postby GuyD73 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:06 pm

So Julian, I reckon Marsha de Codova will hold Battersea, for reasons I won't bore you with here but which are outlined in some detail on post in a 'London remainers tactical voting and vote swapping' that I've set up on Next Door. https://nextdoor.co.uk/g/gwghqi36q/?is=nav_bar You have to be logged in for the link to work. 

I too really don't like Corbyn and if Labour were led by Starmer we'd be looking at very different arithmetic in the polls. Reality is if we get a hung Parliament and second ref, we'll may need a further GE after that and I don't suppose Corbyn will be leader for that one. 

Can I suggest if you can't bring yourself to 'hold your nose' then you find a nice green voter in a seat like Lewes to swap with? You help elect a lib dem and they get their (otherwise wasted in Lewes) green vote at least counted in Battersea. I'd be happy to help arrange that for you, or you can use https://www.swapmyvote.uk/

 
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cjdad
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Re: How I’m voting to Labour to Remain in Battersea and why I’ve done a tactical vote swap to help the Lib Dems.

Postby cjdad » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:09 am

I find it incredulous why anyone would vote for a Labour party that is being investigated by the Equalities and Human Rights Commission into breaches of race relation laws i.e the antisemitism that is endemic in the party. Since 2007 there has only been one other political party investigated for breaches of race relation laws in the UK and that was the BNP. The evidence of antisemitism within the Labour party at all levels is so widespread that we need to ensure they are never elected.       
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meghanFORqueen
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Re: How I’m voting to Labour to Remain in Battersea and why I’ve done a tactical vote swap to help the Lib Dems.

Postby meghanFORqueen » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:04 am

less than a single week and I for one am looking for this whole thread to be concluded.

when we wake up on 13th December and find that Boris has 370 seats of conservatives, what will we do?

libdems on 15 (and jo swinson probably claiming to be prime minister), social democratic momentum peoples labour on 100 (and still trolling like hell on facebook) and new labour (only party worth voting for … ) on 100 after splitting into two. All credible opposition will be removed. what will we do?

snp getting 35 in their last election ahead of a criminal trial of the former leader and then the subsequent outcome of the investigation into their current leader (has to be kept hush hush until the Scottish jourers have returned their verdict on big 'eck). and maybe the good people of Scotland wake up in the next Scottish election and realise how poorly the snp run the circus . what will the scots do?

when bojo sends in the big guns and gets Brexit done on a fresh mandate (with all MPs aware of what mandate they were elected on) on 24 December, what will we do then? 

when marsha cant even claim for her poppy reef as she doznt have an MPs expense account (if she ever goes to an event when not MP) and wandsworth is back where it belongs: tory; what will we do.

what arguments would we all have on Brexit. I suspect none.

but I suspect we will then find whagt bojos real policies are. and is suspect we will be in for a crazy ride on this site and others. 370 seats and no challenger to him.

o
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