Sins of the parents carrying through? Post Reply

[Greatest fields]

Anonymous guest posting for obvious reasons

Some social help please.

My dd has been friends with this girl since reception and they are now year 6. The mum can be described as 'functional middle class alcoholic'.

I was not aware of this for around 2 years of our association, but due to weird behaviour towards me, unreliable behaviour (leaving me waiting for 3 hours for a meet up in the park for example), and also just being mean (saying i am special and then not inviting me to group events with other mums that she organises!), witnessing huge fights between her and her husband, and then observing her huge complaining binge drinking nights about her marraige, I decided to nicely drift away from the friendship.

The girls, however, have remained friends. The daughter is ok - tantrums and spoilt behaviour but basically OK.

As the girls enter tweenhood, i wonder if it is right to allow my DD to expose herself to this girl and their family - idiosyncracies and all. I know as i am getting older how i am turning into my mother. I wonder if the other girl will start turning into her mother and start being mean and unreliable and just learn from the unacceptable behaviour from her family.

I would like to dump this family and get rid of this toxicity from my life and my children. However, my DH says i should let my DD choose her own friends and they are, 'highly functional' afterall. No one is perfect, right? I just really hate the parents and when I drop my DD off I grit my teeth, fake smile and I do not enter the house. The other mum doesn't even leave the car to drop her daughter off. Adult relations have got so bad.

Any advice on how to proceed?

[CyclingLondon]

I think there are a few bits to this:

1. " described as 'functional middle class alcoholic'."

Are you sure? I mean that's a BIG claim. There are many many people in the UK who drink WAY too much but that's not alcoholism. Does she drink drive? Does she fall asleep with the stove on? Is she turning up at events drunk when it's not appropriate? I can't think of almost anyone who hasn't had a bit to drink and complained about their partner. Isn't that what night outs are actually for???

2. is your child safe? That'll depend on the above I guess?

3. you can do whatever you want - it's up to you!

If you don't like someone and you want to drop them as a social contact - go ahead and do just that.

There is nothing stopping you. But if she is an alcoholic, and it's a big if, I would have thought a better example to your daughter, if they're good friends, would be to insist that all playdates are at yours.

You don't need to ask the mum over, just the child, and then the problem has gone away.

If she challenges you be honest, tell her. Tell her you feel she drinks too much and you'd rather the playdates were at yours. It'll be a difficult conversation but it's honest.

hope this helps.

 

[Greatest fields]

Yes, CyclingLondon, unfortunately so.

Over drinking at school functions, yelling and saying inappropriate things.
Missing parent meetings
Being very drunk (so drunk there is no real conversation, just asking questions many times and forgetting you answered) at their own house party at 7pm that it is so embarassing.
Replacing illicitly drunk bottles to fool the husband.
Screaming matches in front of strangers.

When I put these things together I realised there were problems.

BUT highly functional. I believe the kids are physically safe. Mentally, not sure.

Thank you for your response.

I think I know what to do.

[CyclingLondon]

In which case I don't think you have any other option but to remove yourselves from their life - this falls into the territory of child neglect.

If it really is as bad as you say I'd also talk to the school, there is probably a safeguarding issue here.

Good luck.

[muddyboots]

Quite simply, it would be a no from me .

She’s not even a good friend to you which could have made it more awkward.

Your child is young enough to be able to step in and control the situation.

Given they are heading to secondary soon it’s especially important to stay the hell away.

The poor girls is more likely to go off the rails if home life is turbulent and given that you don’t deem their home a safe place would you really like to expose yoy child to a sleep over etc?

You could of course try to encourage the friendship but on certain terms like to be at your house but it would be difficult to manage or justify .

Stay away I say

[Molly Keane]

I am the daughter of an alcoholic who ended his life in suicide and it scarred me for life. My heart goes out to her children but I would not be happy for my child to be in the mother’s presence and be exposed to behaviour that is so self-damaging and damaging to others.
If you want to do the kind thing, tell her and only allow play dates at your place. Though she might very well resent you forever and end the children’s friendship. But it might also make her think.
The other option is to forbid your daughter to see her but that would be quite cruel.
And can I just say to the other poster who questioned whether the mother is an alcoholic and then went on to describe exactly that. Yes, many people drink too much in the UK because they are alcoholics.

[Molly Keane]

I am the daughter of an alcoholic who ended his life in suicide and it scarred me for life. My heart goes out to her children but I would not be happy for my child to be in the mother’s presence and be exposed to behaviour that is so self-damaging and damaging to others.
If you want to do the kind thing, tell her and only allow play dates at your place. Though she might very well resent you forever and end the children’s friendship. But it might also make her think.
The other option is to forbid your daughter to see her but that would be quite cruel.
And can I just say to the other poster who questioned whether the mother is an alcoholic and then went on to describe exactly that. Yes, many people drink too much in the UK because they are alcoholics.

[peggy_blu]

Please please don’t let you daughter stop seeing her friend .


And please do not assume your daughters friend will go off the rails, this is nonsense.

I am child of 2 x functional alcoholics and i had judgement made from people such as yourself about how i would grow up . .

It was often be the daughters of judgemental parents who were incredibly bitchy , smoked and got stupidly got drunk at parties .


The daughter of the alcoholic parents needs her friends. There are many strong characters your daughters friend has for having her Mum who is this way inclined. She is most probably very mature , sensitive, emotionally independent, which will make her develop into a very sensible adult. And she will very unlikely go of the rails and she will know she will have to deal with her mothers reactions . She is very likely not to be an alcoholic herself and will grow up to manage her alcohol intake , perhaps not drink at all.

There is a great charity , that helps children of alcoholism. It has a great insta page , NACOA UK


also please remember alcoholism in an illness , we can all fall on hard times and be sympathetic towards the situation.

Please please please don’t assume your daughters friend is going to be a bad influence .

[Boundaries]

Regardless of the label alcoholic - it seems like you already know the right answer for your family and are looking for validation (which I can fully understand)- because this is a very hard step and painful journey.

It is entirely OK to leave toxic relationships.
Teaching your daughter to do the same is very important. The other mother sounds horrifically mean and narcissistic. Do not sacrifice your daughter’s safety and development for the sake of another child’s circumstances.

It is your job as a parent to teach, guide and protect your children. It reckless to assume the other mother’s behaviour doesn’t impact everyone in her orbit or those who witnesses it; why on earth would you want your child near this person?

If your gut instinct tells you to restrict social time between your daughter and this young girl; do it.
You owe no apologies and justifications.

As person who had an alcoholic stepfather, disengaged parents, alcoholic close friends, narcissistic friends - RUN; don’t walk. And take your daughter with you.

[Bibi2000]

Morning !

I had a similar situation so I really sympathise. 

I have also struggled with addiction and am now sober.. so can see all sides.

I feel very sorry for this mother , she is obviously incredibly unhappy and needs some support . The strongest ( and most difficult ) would be to have a kind , warm chat with her and explain your concerns for her. Explain that you love the girls hanging out but her behaviour worries you, and you are concerned. 

She will probably get angry , but if you are not talking - it makes no difference. It might sow the seed that she needs to get support from AA or similar. Her children/family must also be worried but have no idea how to handle it. 

Personally, I wouldn't stop your daughter from seeing her friend - your home might be a sanctuary for her .. as someone else suggested - only allow them to hang out at yours and with you - not the other family - until they are seeking help / stop drinking. 

ALSO - My DD is 14 now , and I had a situation where another mum kept turning up drunk to outings - with black eyes / bruises - saying she tripped over the cat etc .. all very heartbreaking really . But I heard the truth via the girls - kids know everything even if they are not quite sure what is going on.

.. it was incredibly draining and I felt awful for her two daughters, but I tried to be sympathetic whilst also banning my daughter from staying at hers. They were welcome at ours anytime. 

I spoke to the mum  - but I felt I could as could use the route .. ' I know how it is , I am currently sober etc etc and can see you are having a tough time etc etc .. which seemed to go down ok and the mum seems much better thank fully. ( 2 years on ) 

Its really tricky - but honesty is really the best policy here - for all parties .

- Try and talk to the mum. 
- Let the girls hang - out at yours only. 
- Try and be compassionate - no one behaves like that if they are ok. She is clearly not ok and needs someone to recognise this . Alcoholics are often very vulnerable and suffering trauma / incredibly insecure / hate themselves. 

I hope that helps a bit - sorry you are having this . Its very stressful , unnerving for all parties.

xxx
 

[missraphaella]

This is a very unfortunate situation all around, and one which I am very familiar with.

To the writer here - you need to trust your instincts. If you feel that this mum is out of control and allowing your child to be around her home environment is detrimental, or even risky, then you absolutely have the right to put in restrictions. Your concerns trump any awkwardness or tension that will inevitably come up. The reality is that the incidences you describe of being concerning are very likely to continue and I certainly wouldn't want my children to be exposed to them.

As someone who spent their childhood as an expat living in different countries, and being exposed to different cultural approaches to alcohol in home settings, ie playdates, birthday parties, etc I have seen the spectrum of different family dynamics. I also had an alcoholic stepfather.

Many people have no idea just how bad being around an alcoholic can be, regardless if the person is nice or in other ways a decent person. My experience is of someone who, after several drinks, would loudly vent perceived injustices, or slam doors, or forget to switch off the gas hob, or try to mow the lawn while waving a cigarette around. All of these things took place in the presence of young children and reflect the total lack of good judgment because they were drunk. 

In my opinion in Britain, people and especially some parents, have the most abnormal relationship with alcohol. I haven't been to a single daytime childrens' birthday party where alcohol isn't readily offered to other parents with a cheeky grin or wink all under the guise of "let's get through this together" as if somehow parenting is such a chore that it needs to be supported by alcohol. This mindset is prevalent at the school gates, and I'm aware of a few mums who clearly are alcoholics. 'Mummy wine culture' comes to mind - https://www.harleytherapy.co.uk/counsel ... oclock.htm

One in particular regularly turns up post-weekend with some 'injury' related to alcohol - recently she hobbled along the pavement with a food cast and loudly shouted that she'd been 'gardening' after having a bottle of wine at Sunday lunch - this isn't covering up for domestic abuse. When sober often her conversation relates to plans to "get the girls round and dance on the tables" and on one occasion at the school gates, one of the other dads teased her in front of everyone about how she'd danced on the kitchen table for an hour, the implication being she was very drunk. Her two young sons often appear down and disheartened and it's clear there is considerable dysfunction at their home, I feel vert sorry for them.

Long story short, to the poster, please trust your instincts. If it doesn't feel right to you, stay away and try to limit your childrens' relationship with this family. It isn't worth their safety trying to make it work. 

PS for anyone here disagreeing with the ascertain that British parents have a real problem with alcohol, these articles are quite insightful:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/arti ... world.html
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2015 ... nk-so-much
https://laceyssolicitors.co.uk/2021/07/ ... angements/


 

[fashionsta]

іt's sad, but you always need to remember: You can't control the behavior of another family, but you can control your own and how you approach the situation. The most important thing is the well-being and happiness of your daughter. Try to focus on that.

[Torcat]

My SIL and my MIL are both as you describe, 'functioning middle-class alcoholics'. Well my MIL is reformed and completely OK now, but my SIL is off the scale. It is a very real issue, not just what middle-class women do and ok because it's only wine. That kind of normalisation is why we are the place we are today. I have been around her when she is off her head and the ramifications are awful. However, if someone had cut contact with her 2 daughters, my nieces, because of their mother's drinking, I would have been very sad. They are pretty emotionally scarred from their upbringing, but themselves do not have a bad relationship with alcohol and behave safely. I would say that your daughter can maintain her friendship, but only have play-dates etc at your house. You need to explain this to your daughter. I imagine you will have to explain this to the other mother at some point too, as she will continually ask your daughter to her house. That won't be an easy conversation, she is most likely in denial, but it is the least bad option, as I see it.

Good luck.

[southoftheriver]

Sounds like you have already made up your mind , but I thought your post did not come across as kind 

The mother has a mental health issue / illness and naming your post "sins of the parents carrying through" ... and making statements like "the daughter is OK - tantrums and spoilt behaviour but basically ok" came across (to me at least) as condescending 

Focus on your own family by all means, but would you consider approaching this difficult situation with a bit more sensitivity and compassion ? Not least as other posters have said because the children are collateral damage and vulnerable and dont have control over their own (sad) situation

[AJ2012]

The older I become (50 now) the more infuriated I am by other parents. There is a child in difficulty (the daughter of the alcoholic, at least), and your solution is to abandon the family. People with mental health problems (including addiction) need assistance not your judgment.

Whilst it is probably correct that the mother needs to help herself first, you have an opportunity to be a good I influence in the life of your daughter. And also the opportunity to model compassion to your own child. By all means put some boundaries in place to protect your daughter- like- play dates only at yours. This could also give the daughter a “safe space” should she need one. might also have some hard conversations with your child about this.

It takes a village. Sometimes we need to BE the village.

Also- how old are you that you are turning into your mother? Not in your teens I assume.

It made me very sad to read this post, and the early replies.