Yeah but cyclists Post Reply

[CyclingLondon]

Hi
there have been a number of threads on here about cyclists and I wanted to share something which is very close, geographically, to us all.

Today in Balham there was a dreadful road accident ON the pedestrian crossing.

Numerous police in attendance.

As the wonderful Jo wrote on her Twitter (pic from Jo too)


'Bad scene - this is where over a thousand children walk to school each morning. We have a serious issue with drivers jumping the lights at this junction"

https://x.com/JoRigby_Balham

This is why us cyclists get so upset when road users go on a phoney war against cyclists. When we get it wrong it's very very unlikely that we'll hurt anyone but ourselves. I'm not saying cyclists don't get it wrong, but the risk is almost always to us.

When cars get it wrong other people often die.

 

[juliantenniscoach]

I'm a cyclist (as well as pedestrian and car owner) and agree with your point about the relative dangers of getting it wrong.  However, we cyclists don't do ourselves any favours, especially the Uber/Lime users.  I'm sure I'm now in the minority of cyclists who stop at red lights.  It's an obvious danger to all, and one that's guaranteed to wind all other users up.  

The "them v us" conflict only drives clicks for the Daily Hate and Daily Excess brigade.  Better to channel energies in for all users to follow the law and Highway Code.

[Dottedblue]

Unfortunately I have to agree that very few cyclists stop when pedestrians have green light for crossing. My youngest was almost hit but a bicycle coming full speed in Balham High Road (and the traffic light was red for cars and green for us). I will never forget. Now my kids know they can't cross just because they see the "green man". Need to check the bikes are actually stopping first.

[CyclingLondon]

I am so sorry that your son was out at risk by a cyclist - that shouldn’t have happened.

However my point is that when cyclists get it wrong they tend not to kill people.

If he had been hit by a van or a car then there is a good chance that he’d have been killed.

That is not to excuse the cyclist, but the relative risk is very very different.

[Morningblues]

This is such an ignorant and selfish post and I'm glad other cyclists here agree. It is never ok not to stop on the red lights and let me show you how deeply ignorant and sad your argument that "cyclists can only hurt themselves" is...

Years ago now, my friend's dad, a very careful and responsible experienced driver accidently killed a drunk teenager who suddenly ran into the street in front of him. There was no way for him to stop, there were witnesses who saw it happen and the driver was in no way at fault. The boy died. Although he was not at fault, the process still had to happen - there was a court case that lasted for months, at the end of which he was absolved. Let me tell you how it changed this poor gentle man for ever - even though the whole sad accident was not his fault, he never found peace. The guilt of killing a teenage boy (same age as his daughter) totally destroyed him. He met his parents in court. From a non drinker, he became a very heavy drinker, or perhaps even an alcoholic. He is now a shell of a person. His family and his life is destroyed.

So you saying that noone should care about cyclists not stopping at red light as they are only danger to themselves is shameful.

The other day I was at the Ravenslea Road and Nightingale Lane crossing - it's a very big crossing and it's impossible to have visibly from all the sides. A lady cyclists just went on red and almost got hit by a car.

You should take a hard look at yourself and your disregard for the rules that exist for a reason...

[Morningblues]

Should be *visibly not visibly

[Mikeydon]

Oh, Morning Blues, your tale of your friend's dad's "ordeal" of being vindicated by the court is truly heart-wrenching. I mean, who could possibly imagine the sheer inconvenience of going through legal proceedings after a collision with a drunken teenager who subsequently died? And what a profound tragedy that fault can't be determined at the roadside! Your sympathy for his turn to alcoholism is just so touching. Perhaps, just perhaps, you might spare a fleeting thought for what the parents of the deceased teenager went on to endure. But I'm sure your perspective would be entirely unchanged if it were your family grieving the loss of a young, albeit drunken, life. Your empathy is simply astounding!

[Cyclingmad]

Mikeydon - your post doesn't make any sense. None at all. What kind of point are you trying to make in this debate? It makes me angry that people like you give us cyclists a bad name.

The way I read Morningblues post is that cyclists can't say "it's ok to jump red lights because we are only endangering ourselves and no one else". I think what she / he is saying is that killing someone changes people's life forever, even if the accident wasn't their fault. So you can't say "it only affects us so don't moan at us for being unscrupulous and jumping lights" right? It affects the driver who might kill you too.

[Threedragons]

I feel really sorry for the poor guy. I think I would be in pieces knowing I've killed someone, even if it was not my fault. I can't imagine you can ever truly get over something like this and I can understand that it can ruin someone's life. Also, I can't imagine an accident resulting in a death can ever be "dealt with just by roadside"? I imagine due diligence and process would still need to follow.

Some people here are really nasty

[CyclingLondon]

Years ago now, my friend's dad, a very careful and responsible experienced driver accidently killed a drunk teenager who suddenly ran into the street in front of him. There was no way for him to stop, there were witnesses who saw it happen and the driver was in no way at fault. 

MorningBlues I have no idea what point you're making here.

But I think you're saying two things.

1) That any road accident resulting in a person injured or killed is a tragedy. If so yes I agree. It is always a tragedy. No matter where the blame lies. I always remember the line from the drama with Sean Bean where he is an alcoholic teacher who kills a kid and his own father says to him "I love you but I don't love what you did." Which to me just sums up how may people are affected. After all, this isn't a relative of the victim but of the perpetrator.

2) So you saying that noone should care about cyclists not stopping at red light as they are only danger to themselves is shameful.

Your friends situation didn't have a cyclist in it, as far as I can tell! If I wanted to summarise it I could write

"A car driver who was not a cyclist, hit a pedestrian who was not a cyclist, and the non-cycling pedestrian was killed. The non-cycling driver was eventually absolved on any blame although the personal cost of the incident was huge."

THERE ARE NO CYCLISTS IN YOUR POST!

Now if the father had been a cyclist perhaps no-one would have died? And, if so, then everyone would be happier. This is my point.

DRIVERS WHEN THEY GET IT WRONG OFTEN KILL PEOPLE BUT CYCLISTS ALMOST NEVER DO.

But yeah, cyclists.
 

[Sunandswim]

Cycling London that attitude is completely unhelpful. A cyclist hitting a pedestrian can seriously injure or even kill them, especially if it’s a young child. I have no idea what your argument is…? It’s okay for cyclist to ‘ride badly’ because they almost never kill someone. Surely you wouldn’t want to test that out…

[CyclingLondon]

A cyclist hitting a pedestrian can seriously injure or even kill them

But they almost certainly won’t.

My point is that two cars had a huge collision on a pedestrian crossing in balham.

Actually on the place where people cross.

It’s a miracle no one was killed.

But yeah, cyclists!

[Balham Hillite]

On average 3 pedestrians a year are killed by cyclists and many more injured. I have been in a couple of very close misses where if I didn't had faster reactions, myself or my child would have been seriously injured by a cyclist, one time leaving us feeling quite shaken up. CyclingLondon your post is ridiculous and reeks of arrogance. Essentially you are saying the Highway Code doesn't apply to cyclists. What is the point of it, if you don't need to follow it? You have also ignored the really key point made (by analogy) that any serious accident involving a cyclist even where it is the cyclist's fault, can destroy lives. I don't have a car and would love to cycle in London but don't feel safe enough; I would love for there to be better cycling infrastructure but cyclists like you only strengthen the anti-cycling lobby. You give cyclists a bad name.

[nsm321]

As a daily cyclist of over 20 years on london roads I have never had an accident (touch wood) despite the dangers of cars and trucks often veering into cycle lanes and trying to nip past each other at junctions causing gridlock or near misses.
Cyclists take a huge amount of cars off our roads and massively lover both the amount of traffic and risk to pedestrians whilst saving our environment from air pollution.
Obviously road crossings near busy junctions and schools demand extra care but attacking cyclists who are efficiently travelling on our roads is not the solution.
Which would you prefer?

[Onionelf]

I waited at a crossing on Clapham High St with a mother taking three young boys to school. The moment the green man came up the boys ran across the road and missed a peloton of Lycra-clad cyclists, going so fast they couldn’t have stopped for their red light., by inches. A vision I can’t forget. Why does cycling to work have to be a race.