Some people don't want to talk to me. They have their reasons and it is none of my business what these are. I see it as their problem not mine. I find I am a lot happier if I just forget about them and concentrate on the people who do want to talk to me. There are usually more of the latter. If I found that there were significantly more of the former I might start to worry. Some places can be cliquey - I'm happy to be an outsider and take my time to get to know the genuine people behind the facade.
If you go around being friendly, open and sensitive to others you should be just fine. London can seem unfriendly but there are always people with time to talk if you want to. I don't have much experience of America but as a Brit I find the overconfident culture quite intimidating and possibly superficial. But I am aware that's a cultural thing and don't take it personally or judge people on face value.

The common thread behind all these posts is "Some people are different and some people are the same". Well - obviously.

I would contend that we are all different in a far more profound way than we like to imagine. We are all pursuing totally separate lives, both within and without our families and our circle of friends, like parabolas on an arc which, mathematically speaking, cannot possibly meet on the same axis. Occasionally of course - because we shun the absolutism of numbers - we bump up against each other, like random particles in a Brownian solution, and sometimes, because of that friction, a scintilla of warmth is generated. I admit it's a slim reed to hang a life on, but that's all there is and it's a testament to human existence that this is, apparently, enough to support 5,000 years of continuous civilisation. It's a cold world out there and naturally we cleave to anything that even resembles the warmth of genuine contact, whilst inwardly acknowledging that it is, and cannot help but be, illusory.

The original poster is not confronting a simple question of social impropriety but a dramatisation of the absolute and unforgiving loneliness of the human condition.

Momtomom you are right that Brits do have networks of friends that start at a young age and continue throughout their life, I have school friends, uni friends and mum friends all nearby. This is simply because England is small!! Even when i meet new people there is often a connection, for example, one of my new mum friends knew my husbands family and had been on holiday with them at a young age! It happens all the time.

When I lived in LA it was different, LA was a melting pot of Americans living miles from their families in Dallas, Washington, NY etc. also, in their college years they would travel huge distances from their families then end up working in a different place again breaking ties each time. I think this encourages friendliness as people are perhaps more sympathetic to newcomers.

I think it is unfair to criticise out culture and especially to take one woman and use her as an example to tarnish us all with the same brush. As mom to mum said its not wrong it's just different.

[quote="momtomum"]I am an American mom in London. As an American, there are many things about British culture - or especially the culture in London - I find difficult to cope with.

This does not mean that British or London culture is wrong - or that American culture is wrong. It just means that they are not the same.

You said it well momtomom.Thank you!

I am an American mom in London. As an American, there are many things about British culture - or especially the culture in London - I find difficult to cope with.

This does not mean that British or London culture is wrong - or that American culture is wrong. It just means that they are not the same.

It is hard especially at first to be an American here. Many of the British moms I've met in our community have known each other for years. It often feels like they aren't looking for new friends, especially friends who might move away in a year or two. In typical American culture, neighbors invite each other over into their homes frequently, but it seems rare here. In the US people are far more social with strangers on public transport or in public places. There are many other differences.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with either culture, just that it can be quite difficult to adjust. I've found it easier to make friends with other American moms (and expats from anywhere!) because they can identify with how this feels.

Breanna you hit the nail on the head, very eloquently put! Cals mum could learn a few things from you!

Yup@Breanne.

Besides, I want to be a friend with Americans! There are constantly posts about American mums meeting up with children similar age to mine, etc. And I do think 'What a shame it's just for American mums, it sounds like fun'. Should I feel excluded?

I can't believe I'm actually commenting on this but...

I'm a Canadian who has been living in the UK for nearly 10 years and am now lucky to have friends from all over the globe as a result. London is one of the most culturally diverse and accepting places in the world!

I can honestly say that the only culturalism/racism/whatever you want to label it has come from ex pats who move here and then seemingly take great pleasure on British-bashing and criticising of any differences to "the way things are at home". Guess what - nobody asked you to move here. If it's so perfect "back at home", then why are you here?? I'm very proud of my mother country (which is renound for it's friendly, accepting people) but also love the UK and everything it has to offer. People are just as friendly here and just as accepting as "home" - provided you treat them the same way!

The truth is that there are stuck up idiots all over the world. If you've happened to encounter one in London then that's a shame - but don't use that as an excuse to criticise an entire nation.

OP - I haven't read all of these replies but on skimming a few of them, I have to say this stuff drives me mad too. I am a BRIT and sometimes a bit shy but NOT RUDE and NOT going to make this a cultural difference. I have friends from all different parts of the world and in many different situations / differnt age groups / parents and non-parents / richer and poorer / different religious beliefs / backgrounds and etc from mine - in fact, when I look at it, I have LESS BRIT mummy friends than NON-BRIT!

It is just rudeness, frankly. As a fulltime working mum I found it took a while before people remembered my face as I only picked my son up from his nursery once or twice a week and our childminder picked him up the othertimes and took him in of a morning.

So, it's only gradually that I have come to recognise other mummies' faces and their children's names. But if I'm around the school or the park where all the kids go, I will always smile and say hello to anyone with a child just because that's nice and it is also likely they go to the same nursery and live in the area as we do, so why not?

What you describe is rude esp as you've made the effort to just say hi. I did have a situation like you describe and I ended up blanking this woman back - no more smiles. I found out a few things a long time later - she is thought of as v uptight by many other mummies, she has big issues concerning how wealthy she is and that she always acts like she owns the place, and she has a cocaine problem.

So while I agree that it is rude behaviour - I also agree that it might not actually be about you, just that she could be a stuck up cow/have issues that create her being more stuck up!!

Hugs and best

Musicalmummy X

Oops, disregard last post littlebitloopy. It wasn't directed to me! Maybe I should be littlebitloopy! My name is American Mum on another site!

Littlebitloopy, I am not the original poster. I just defended her regarding lack of British friends after 5 years. In what may be the most culturally diverse city in the world I think it's naive to think a person who relocates here should have made more British friends in said time period, when the mums at the playgrounds, parks, cafes, school functions, etc are from all over the world.

Calsmom...you are definitely not crazy, and it isn't just you. My first few years here I almost broke down in tears on a regular basis after a school run. How can people you have met and interacted with so clearly and deliberately turn their heads away to avoid a mere acknowledgement and smile?

I'm from California, but have also lived in Chicago, Boston, Vermont, ...and Ireland. There IS a difference here. After my first 2 years I went home - via Ireland - and almost fell over at the amount of people who said hello, struck up conversations, and gave friendly love for no good reason. And I thought "thank God, I wasn't imagining - it IS different."

The worst part is that for the first few years my children said hello to strangers everywhere they went and THEY got blanked. I always used to cover by saying "oh, they just didn't hear you honey." I didn't want them to change and be like all those children here that I offer smiles to and they just give me suspicious, dirty looks. After 4 years, I am afraid they don't say hello nearly as often, but hope they still respond with smiles when they are given one.

I decided after a few years of depression living in London that I had to stop thinking about it, not let it change me, and eventually it got better. I accept what I don't get, but remain open to the friendly greetings and friendships that present themselves.

To the non-Americans reading - no one is saying that every American is friendly and every Brit is not. But there are major differences in approach (especially in London) and it can be a real challenge negotiating them - especially when you have kids! Fair play to you Cals_mom for seeking support or feedback and weathering the storm.

Just a thought: the OP might find Kate Fox's Watching the English a useful read. Fox is an anthropologist and explains 'negative politeness' - the theory that, here and in crowded islands such as Japan and Madagascar, politeness is driven by a desire not to intrude.

There's a brief explanation here: http://www.jameskeirstead.ca/blog/posit ... oliteness/

American Mum,

Although maybe I did find your original post slightly offensive (generalising any nationality/race can be perceived as biggoted).. I can relate to your situation. however, I honestly feel culture/age/marital status/gender/any other way of catagorizing a person has NOTHING to do with this. Like you, I talk to almost anyone. I give the old lady on the bus a run for her money. Seriously! But some people just aren't made that way *shrugs*. I ddon't think this is because you're foreign, you're probably jus a bit over enthusiastic like me! ha! Take it as a compliment love, not everyone has kids n still has the energy to keep up with us!

This is just getting offensive now.