How big is the academic gap between Honeywell and Newton Prep? Post Reply

[IoanaB]

I wonder if anyone could offer some thoughts on the academic differences between Honeywell and Newton Prep? We have spaced in both schools are are having a very hard time deciding between the two schools. Thank you very much in advance for offering your views. 

[coldatchristmas]

Its not so much the academic gap, although that is there, but it's the way the schools are structured.

The majority of indy prep schools are focused on learning, development (obviously) but mainly gearing their children to a place at a competitive indy secondary school.

It's become more and more competitive to get into these schools and so for  the "average" child, they will stand a better chance of getting into a competitive indy school if they go to a good indy prep.

The whole of the last 12 months or so will be spent doing exam practice for the 11plus, mock interviews, helping parents choose the right school (Alleyns versus Dulwich versus Whitgift versus Emanuel versus S&C etc and they are all very different) and for the child there is some comfort in the fact that everyone else is in the same boat, i.e. going for the 11+.

Honeywell and Ravenstone and Belleville and BP all of these are wonderful schools but they don't have this emphasis as there is an assumption that there intakes will continue to go state.

Before everyone jumps in and says "yes but I know loads of kids who went private after these schools..." then yes they are right, but it's not all of them. It really is 99% for the indy preps.

So the answer to your question is, I think, where do you want them to go later in life? If it's a state grammar or Bolingbroke then you have a difficult decision, if it's into the indy sector then I think you need to look at indy from the start, or at least relatively soon ("state will eight" really is a rule of thumb!).

Hope that helps

[IoanaB]

Thank you so much for your kind reply, Coldforchristmas! It was very helpful to read. We moved from abroad to London recently and our child (currently Year 2 in London) works about 2 years ahead of the Year 2 curriculum. He is very bored in his current state school (rated "good"). Therefore, I am struggling to understand whether an "outstanding" state school would stimulate him enough or whether an independent school is required. This is why I am wondering how big the academic gap between an "outstanding" state school and a good independent schools really is. 

[livegreen]

Know both schools well.

There is definitely no academic gap.

Really there is no academic race, except in our bubble.

Secondary school starts at 11, GCSEs at 16, A levels at 18, for the academic, and then possibly University.

Most important thing is that children are happy and enjoy their childhood.

If you have place at Honeywell, assume you are local to it, so why commute to another school and put you and children through it.

Good luck.

[IoanaB]

Thank you very much, livegreen! We are happy to move close to Newton Prep. if we go with that school so that would not be an issue. 
Newton Prep. says it works at least one year ahead of the National Curriculum and my child passed an entry test that was 2 years or more ahead of the National Curriculum for his year, so I do not quite understand why there is no academic difference. Also, my understanding is that children are split in sets according to ability from year 1, so unlike a state school, it seems like an independent school should be able to accommodate a child who works ahead of the curriculum. Am I missing something?

[Mimita]

There is definitely an academic gap between an outstanding state school and a good prep like Newton. My children started at an outstanding state school with extra curricular activities that could rival many indies and I felt there was no need to move them until the younger one started agitating. When I say agitating, I mean he just refused to learn at the National Curriculum level for his age. He was well above and was bored. Why? Well in a classroom of nearly 30 children of differing abilities who has time to tailor teaching to one or two gifted children or even children on the other side of the spectrum? Coupled with some other problems at school, he decided he wanted to move schools. He moved to a school where they are all essentially of a similar level and the difference is stark. From having to drag him out of bed to go to school, he is now up and ready even though school starts earlier. He is the kind of child who likes to collect knowledge, you know the sort.
So what's the difference I hear you ask? For starters, the National Curriculum is prescriptive. At 5, the child should know this or that etc. This means that the less experienced teacher (and there are many) teaches to that prescription almost verbatim. The other problem is that in a class of nearly 30, who can bother to differentiate learning for the more able or the less so? I wouldn't. It's far too much work for a tiny minority. There is also the matter of classroom discipline which is a bigger problem in state schools partly due to class sizes. Where good indies usually excel is in their smaller class sizes and the fact that they have usually had an education consultant break the curriculum down with teaching for the different levels and added interesting extras. But their children tend to be very similar academically anyway. They sift out the difficult children regardless of what they say. Many only take bright children who have passed an exam to get into that school. Can you imagine the motivation for learning in a classroom full of children who know they were selected to be at that school? These are usually alpha children. They don't need to be cajoled to excel, they just do.
In essence what I am trying to say is this, if your child is bright and shows an aptitude for learning and you can afford to pay for a good prep like Newton, you should. Not to mention the extracurricular experiences.

[IoanaB]

Thank you so much, Mimita! That is exactly what I assumed. My child is behaving exactly the way you described yours. He is extremely bored in his state "good" school and I struggle to get him into school every single day. The teacher in his school simply refuses to give him anything else to do other than the material for the entire class and the curriculum is followed "verbatim" exactly as you said. Thank you very much for sharing your experience, Mimita! It was very helpful. 

[vlm79]

I am actually replying in response to Mimita who states that in a state school, who has the time to differentiate and basically why would anyone bother?

Well, speak for yourself Mimita....have you ever been a teacher in either a state or an independent school? If you have then I certainly wouldn’t want my child to be taught by you!

Having taught in both sectors I can honestly say that the quality and standard of teaching in both, particularly in Wandsworth, where I have experience, is excellent. I differentiate for my children and in most schools there is ability streaming anyway.

Please don’t assume the worse Mimita and then go around telling people this, as if it is fact everywhere!

Good luck in your choice with schools - I am sure that wherever your child goes they will do well.

[ESA]

I’ve had experience of Newton Prep and Belleville and I’d be very happy to share my thoughts if it would help.
My email is info@thebabycarecompany.co.uk

Eilish

[Imogen123]

I have no experience teaching in either of these 2 particular schools, but I have taught in both state and private schools in the area.

From my experience, what truly stands the state schools apart is the quality of teaching. State school teachers are continually observed and take part in a huge amount more training that private schools teachers. This means they are up to date with best practice. These are also the teachers who do the job because they love it, they want to inspire children to learn rather than doing it for longer holidays.

If you were to compare a lesson in a state and private school, the private would be completely geared to passing exams. In the state school, however, children would be inspired and pushed to learn for reasons far bigger than passing an 11+ exam. For quality of teaching and lessons, no private school matches state education.

Having been privately educated myself, I found this realisation incredibly surprising when I went into teaching. I can honestly say that I would now never dream of sending my child to an independent prep school where they will be drilled into exam preparation, be taught by teachers who have been teaching the same lessons for years and do most of their learning from old text books.

Hope this helps!

[IoanaB]

Dear Imogen123, 
Thank you very much for your reply! I must say that my experience with my child going through 2 state schools in Wandsworth could not be further from what you are describing. I was extremely disappointed by these two state schools. The only thing is that these two schools are rated "good" so I don't know if there is a massive difference between the ones we experienced and an "outstanding" one like Honeywell. I would choose Newton Prep over the two "good" schools we tried immediately, but now I am wondering if I should revisit the decision since we have the option of putting him in an "outstanding" state school. We are not from London so all of this is very unfamiliar to me. 
Vlm79, I am surprised to hear that most schools stream by ability. There was no such option in the two schools we attended and I didn't understand that this would be done in Honeywell either. 

[muckyjeans]

My daughter had a place at both and we chose Honeywell- so glad we did. It’s a happy school and both my kids loved it. With benefit of hindsight, (daughter now doing A levels at independent) it gave them a precious few years to enjoy school and learning before entering the relentless race for exam grades. It’s really not healthy and in grand scheme of things all a bit pointless. No one asks about your GCSE grades once you’ve got your first job.
I’d stave the pressure off as long as possible.
If your child is academic he will do well wherever you choose. All of my kids’ friends at Honeywell who wanted to go independent at secondary school did so, (coming from a state school can actually work in your favour) and they will have had, in my opinion, a very special start to their academic career.

[Scottov]

Zero

None of these schools will turn your child into anything that they’re not

[livegreen]

@ionaB.

National curriculum is a basis and is built to be accessible by all children.

There will be children at all schools who are ahead of curriculum, those working at it and those struggling to keep up. Most good teachers can easily support this.

If your child is academic they will with your support do well at any school.
I note you’ve already had your child at 2 schools and moving again. I would value a good friendship group at this age more highly than pushing academically.

Try not to get caught up in the arms race of academic one-upmanship that is prevalent in these parts. You and your children’s happiness is far more important.

@Muckjeans - well said!

[NoodleFan]

Honeywell is a happy school no doubt. However, one of my children fitted in slightly better there than the other one. My son wasn’t into football, preferred the company of girls and is generally a bit of a nerd - he is much happier at his Indy secondary school now, where there seem to be more kids like him. It could be that he was in a more footbally year than usual though.

Also because Honeywell entry is distance-based you can end up with e.g. 10 girls and 20 boys which was the case for our daughter, and made for some quite loud lessons...

Academically I agree with muckyjeans that H is a lovely place to learn. And with a tutor from year 5 onwards most kids will get into an Indy secondary school if they want to - possibly not their top one but that is increasingly the case from the Indy prep schools too. Competition is fierce.

Good luck.