GAZETTE restaurant - AVOID at all costs!! Locked

[mummy_dani]

I have never been to Gazette and so cannot comment on the service, food, ambience etc and I am slightly put off trying it by OP's experience. However, what really puts me off is that the owner has had a fantastic experience to not only sing the praises of the restaurant but also apologise to the OP and state how situations would be handled differently in future ... and yet in my opinion all he has done is come across quite bitter that there haven't been more positive comments about the place and state that priority of level of service goes to business customers. As someone said earlier, those customers won't necessarily be the ones returning in the evening with their partners, but the mothers will. I'm not suggesting mums and children should be tolerated no matter what, but a toddlers tantrum (all of our children are guilty of that at some point) should be overlooked for a short period of time, especially in a place which seems to, albeit superficially, encourage mums and children.

I agree with Julian in that given the number of other places around which I know I would be comfortable in, I don't think I'll risk going to Gazette. The scene I would cause if they tried to get me to leave halfway through my lunch would be much worse than my son's tantrum, so best for all I stick to the places I know!

[Happymama]

I think it's a bit unfair to avoid the place because a few posters have had a bad experience? I for one will go and check this place out with my two toddlers (!!!) so that I can make my own mind up.

Come on everyone can have an off day. I had an awful first trip to Byrons Burgers and swore I would never go back. Was invited by a friend there for a birthday lunch on Sunday and had a really great time!

[grigorjoy]

Livegreen, I can't help but think you work for Gazette as you are twisting my words to try to make me out to be a horrible, irresponsible mother. Yes, my child was having a tantrum as in he spent a few minutes crying vs. a throw yourself on the floor kicking and screaming tantrum. Every parent knows it takes more than 30 seconds to calm a child down but I believe it is important to take a minute to explain that Little Jimmy can't play with a knife because it's dangerous before you turn their attention to something else and end the tantrum. If that's bad parenting then I guess my kid's going to turn out to be some sort of monster.

And to say I was hoping the staff would pull a funny face and make everything better while I just sat there doing nothing is dillusional. I merely meant that it helps to have staff who are more laid back and try to make light of the situation (whether they choose to interact with your child or not) rather than resort to kicking you out.

And finally in response to another posting I don't feel it's correct to put mothers and babies down the priority list of who gets top table service simply because we're not ordering a couple bottles of wine during our lunch. Some of these restaurants would be largely empty during the daytime if it weren't for mums and them bringing their 7 other NCT friends along for a lunch and a chat. That's £10-15 per head of revenue that they would otherwise not have had. To dismiss that income as trivial shows terrible business sense. At the end of the day these restaurants exist to serve their clients regardless of who they are. I can't speak for everyone but I certainly don't feel apologetic at forking over money to pay for lunch and a coffee simply because I have my son with me.

[dandelion53]

I wasn't suggesting anyone should receive worse service because they are spending less. I was just pointing out that it is hard for a waiter if 2 people who might have been spending £40 per head on lunch and go there often for meetings complain about another table with a crying child on it, then they need to do something about it. Clearly in this instance, it wasn't dealt with in a way that kept everyone happy.

I know I wasn't there and I have tried not to criticise the original poster as I have no idea what happened. However, that is exactly why I have tried to point out the other side to this. She has put in capital letters a very negative heading about this restaurant and other people are saying that they may not go there. But they weren't there either and have no idea if she is justified or just embarrassed. Her child may well have been screechy since he arrived and this final burst of crying was the last straw? Who knows. And we don't know how the staff dealt with it and what they said exactly. But over her version of events, their business may be damaged.

I think because we live in an area with so many children we forget that they aren't the centre of the universe and that the majority of customers who aren't accompanied by them would rather they be quiet and well behaved or not there at all, especially in a restaurant where you might be spending alot of money for a pleasant experience. Why should they suffer because you want to "take a minute to explain that Little Jimmy can't play with a knife...". Well I would say that you need to remember that the other customers don't give a flying fig if thats good/bad parenting or what he will turn out to be! Maybe the place to teach table manners/dangers is at home?
I know that sounds harsh but I mean it to because I think sometimes we forget that that is how the majority of people are probably thinking...

[SusieL]

While I agree with being considerate to other diners- this is a forum for MOTHERS. Hence we are entirely within our rights to consider how an establishment treats that group. I'm sure a business 'forum' might report that it was a wonderful place where screaming children are asked to leave! Thank god- no children! And an establishment can decide what it's target clientele will be as I'm sure it's difficult to cater for all. If business people are their primary target then losing some mothers isn't going to be a shock.

I have been into gazette with my two (3&1) and it was fine. There were lots of kids (Sunday lunch) and lots of non families, and it all seemed harmonious. They have a kiddies menu (bit too French for my little one but that says more about him than them!). The staff were all polite. I will probably go back again.

But I think to expect people on a mothers' (sorry parents'!) forum to always think about how non child people might feel about things is ridiculous! let's face it they rarely consider us (I had a door closed in my face just yesterday while pushing a buggy by one of the "majority of people")

[Firefly]

You say you would have understood the waiter asking you to leave if the restaurant had been full but there were only 2 other customers.

So you admit it would have been annoying to other customers then. Why could you not have just taken him outside before being asked until he calmed down?

Those other 2 customers presumably didn't just go out to eat because they were hungry or they would have eaten at home or got a take away. They choose to pay a premium to eat in, be served and relax? The wait staff wouldn't have known your son would have calmed down in 'x' time so they asked you to take him outside.

I have toddlers myself so I do understand tantrums but I can only presume the 'crying' went on long enough for the staff to feel they needed to intervene. Perhaps they weren't very polite about it but was there really a need to write such a scathing review? Why not spend your time and energy writing to the owner/manager?

BTW, I have never been to Gazette but can't believe you are so upset about this you felt it appropriate to write such a nasty review on a local site.

[supergirl]

We live in a children kingdom where they cant be properly educated (and sometimes it means being disciplined) for fear of sending the wrong message. In this area, children go to coffee shops and restaurants so often that for them it is normal, part of their lives so they dont feel (or are not asked) to behave differently because they are eating in a restaurant like grown ups. Parents lives are centrered around them.
It is a shame that we cannot agree that in any given public place child friendly or not, children should be ask to behave or out. Whether it is a few seconds winge or a proper scream. We need to give them the tools to live IN the society snd frustration is good for them.

[grigorjoy]

I don't know how you can say frustration is good for children. What do you do when your husband does something that really pisses you off? A normal person would yell for a bit then calm down enough to be able to talk about it.

Children are no different. They vent in the one way they know how - i.e. through a few tears. I don't know why that concept is difficult to understand as it's part of basic human behaviour. You can't go around not allowing your child to express that, albeit I will agree there is a fine line between what is acceptable and what is not, which I suppose is essentially what this entire thread has ended up debating.

I personally don't feel you confine teaching manners and behaviour to the home. The whole point of teaching children the difference between right and wrong is consistency. Me telling my child 'no' is bound to result in a few tears. I do my best to make sure that doesn't get out of control, and in this particular situation I don't feel that it was, but at the same time I wish that people could accept that sometimes a few tears is a necessary part of life and not treat it like it's the work of the devil.

[Pud1]

I totally agree with you Dandelion and Firefly. As I wrote earlier in this discussion, we can not underestimate the damage that can be done to a business as a result of such a negative, subjective post. The consequences are likely to be far reaching. As others have said, let's hope that we have the sense to make our own minds up and that we give this restaurant a chance to prove itself.

[supergirl]

Frustration is important for their development because it shows them that they cant get everything they want all the time. Yes saying no is important and yes they end up upset because they didnt get what they wanted. I usually say smthg along the lines of "yes i understand you d like to have/do that but no you are not goung to have/do it now. I understand you are upset and you have the right to be upset but i dont want to hear any screams".
As for when my husband pisses me off i usually dont yell. I try to bite my tongue and wait for the right time/way to tell him. I expect my children to eventually be able to control their emotion like an adult. This is consistent with the way i want to raise them and the kind if adults i d like them to be.
This is taught both outside and inside the home. So they cannot behave like brats anywhere.
But each to their own.

[SFMC]

I am quite stunned that a post complaining about the customer service of a restaurant has turned into a rather judgemental attack on the original poster's parenting, and even the state of the nation's children!?! I'm not of the mind that children should be seen rather than heard (but yikes they are loud sometimes!!). I think as parents we seem to always be judged (on anything and everything), and perhaps we also do a lot of judging!

It seems the issue has turned from poor customer service to blaming the mother, blaming the child in some weird roundabout way and how one should parent. As a parent I am rather tired of 'blame the mother' syndrome but perhaps that is for another thread. We all know how hard and complex parenting can be. To address some other responses, I personally feel that children are a part of everyday life and should be able to participate in many public and cultural aspects of it, for better and for worse. I don't think the world revolves around me and my child, nor do I think children can and should do everything and go everywhere by any means. But there are appropriate spaces and times to do things with your child. I think there are far more places for adults to wine, dine and conduct business meetings (or read or be on the laptop etc) than there are for families to do things together. I think lunch at a local restaurant that provides highchairs and a children's menu is one such appropriate venue to say the least! But now before I digress further...

It is my opinion that part of owning a business is to accept accountability for the action's of your staff and part of taking care of your customers is acknowledging their experiences within your establishment. To bring things back to the original point/post, the owner of the business took the time to put a long post on here , but never truly acknowledging the experience of the original post (whether or not it is "true" - which isn't the issue) or attempt or show the desire to acknowledge the feelings and experience of that customer. Sometimes listening and acknowledging goes a long way.

A 2 year old is still learning and developing their emotional responses to the world. They often do not have the tools to deal with their emotions. This is a long learning process and outbursts happen. However, the manager, waiting staff and even the owner, have the tools, experience and opportunity to handle the public - this is part of their business along with food!
"The customer is always right" while not ultimately true , businesses tend to operate best and do well when they respect that as a philosophy.

It sounds like they were dismissive three times - they sent her out, she came back to address the situation and complain, and was met with a dismissive attitude and then she came on here and the owner's response came across as rather dismissive (well he didn't really address the issue).
A little bit of acknowledgement and listening goes a long way towards customer satisfaction. Even if ANY child is throwing a huge temper tantrum that somehow crosses the line (this differs for people)
the WAY they have handled her SINCE the incident does not show any amount of desire to deal with ALL customers in a conscientious or sympathetic way. Ultimately word of mouth and reputation will make or break a restaurant.

As far 'danger' and damage of posting a negative opinion, to pretend that it is a moral obligation to not speak your opinion publicly is to deny what is happening all across the world in most facets of life with social media.
People are using this forum to state both positive and negative reviews and actively seek opinions on various things. Any rational person knows this review is an individual experience and was written in anger - she in fact states she is fuming. I think you are overestimating the impact of this, but it will be, and probably should be, taken into account (along with other reviews - positive and negative).

[SusieL]

Eloquently put SFMC

[Firefly]

""The customer is always right" while not ultimately true , businesses tend to operate best and do well when they respect that as a philosophy. "

This doesn't work in this situation I'm afraid because the reason she was asked to leave was because other CUSTOMERS were being disrupted. So, by making one customer 'right' another would be 'wrong'. If a rowdy bunch of adults were ruining the atmosphere for everyone else, then I would expect them to be asked to either quieten down or leave. Of course the adults should know better but it's not about that it's about the fact ALL customers who are paying the premium to eat out should receive the experience intended by the restaurant and for which they are paying.

Ultimately our children will misbehave when out sometimes but when it starts to ruin others experience it's time to move outside until the crying stops. It's not difficult is it? 3 mins is quite a while to sit listening to a screaming child and as I said before the wait staff would not have known it would blow over at a certain time, they felt the need to intervene for the sake of their other customers.

[grigorjoy]

Well said SFMC! Some mothers on here act as though their children are perfect angels 24/7. Well, Jesus, if that's the case then I'd love to meet them and ask them to write the book on How To Be a Perfect Parent because obviously people like me haven't managed to get it right yet.

And yes, my children are the focal point of my life but then I chose that lifestyle when I decided to get pregnant. I think it's sad that some people feel that business meetings take priority over family life. While I'm not saying children should be allowed to run amuck whenever and wherever they please, I do feel that we should be a bit more accepting of the fact that it's never easy being a mum and that kids will get upset from time to time as they continue to learn right from wrong.

For the record, the neighboring table was not of two men discussing global business strategies. They were two girls taking pictures of themselves on their iphones - hardly the sort of behaviour that two extremely upset customers would engage in.

[Firefly]

"I think it's sad that some people feel that business meetings take priority over family life"


Not one person has said that business meetings take priority they have said they are EQUALLY as important.
And what does it matter whether the other customers were business people or girls looking a pictures on an iphone, they are all PAYING customers who deserve to get the experience intended by the restaurant. Not an experience marred by a screaming toddler for any extended period.

You have twice now categorised other customers and tried to put them in a pecking order.
Firstly you said that you could understand being asked to leave if the restaurant was full but there were only 2 customers in there. You therefore imply that those two girls are not as important as yourselves or other potential customers!
Secondly you say the other customers were not business men but girls playing with an iphone, does that mean it's ok for them to listen your your child scream then?

Children of course should be looked after just as adult should be but if children or adults are spoiling it for others then something needs to be done.