state to independent

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rooting4tooting
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state to independent

Postby rooting4tooting » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:08 pm

Should parents be allowed to school their children in the state system from 5-7 only for the children to leave to attend independent schools?
I'm not sure this is fair on the state teachers or the pupil's friends. I would like those using the system like this to have to volenteer payment to the school about to left. :?:
schoolgatesmum
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Re: state to independent

Postby schoolgatesmum » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:31 pm

This also really gets on my nerves as there are lots of people who want to go to state schools for their entire education who miss out because of the "state til eight" brigade (who tend to live near the best schools!). However, the whole ethos of state schools is that they are open to anyone wherever they are from, whatever their circumstances, whatever language they speak, whatever Special Needs they may have, whatever their future plans are etc. etc. This is not true in the independent sector which is why I will always keep my children in the state sector.
jg75
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Re: state to independent

Postby jg75 » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:54 pm

It is frustrating but maybe look at it from a more positive point of view: 1. Those people are freeing up places for other kids and joining their first choice school at 8 is better than never, and 2. why shouldn't they? They're paying their taxes (I'd hope) even when they're sending their kids to an independent school.

Having said that, I wouldn't want my kids to go to a school where a large number of classmates leave at 8.

But I think it's unrealistic to say it shouldn't be allowed.
southfulhammum
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Re: state to independent

Postby southfulhammum » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:19 pm

Sure... What s the next step: admission to state schools subject to income?
Parents who are deemed too "rich" should be barred from applying... Despite the fact that a lot of them might be paying 45% of their income to the tax man and therefore not able to afford private schools should they have only underachieving state schools in their catchment area OR not even being in any catchment area at all.
mungomuffit
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Re: state to independent

Postby mungomuffit » Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:13 pm

I totally get your point when it comes to people planning that as a strategy well in advance, but what if you had never planned to move to independent and only did so because the state school you had planned on staying at all the way through wasn't working out for you :?:
Vhopeful
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Re: state to independent

Postby Vhopeful » Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:57 pm

Off course people should be allowed to do this if they choose, personally I don't think it's fair on the children. But If they've paid their taxes and contributed to the state school system they should be entitled to use it for as little or as much as they like.
broodje
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Re: state to independent

Postby broodje » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:33 am

State schools are not free - (most) people pay for them through the tax system. They are only free at the point of use. People who leave the state sector are as entitled to this public good as anyone else and when leaving for the independent sector they are starting to pay twice.

If anything, teachers in state school should be perfectly happy re this exodus as this leaves them with smaller classes and more resources.

Don't see what is so controversial.

There is a simple (but not politically correct) solution to all of this - a voucher system where a pupil is entitled to the budget and can take it with you wherever you go. This way people would most likely start in their preferred system straight away. But then of course no everybody could afford the top up payment for private so that's completely politically unacceptable.
supergirl
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Re: state to independent

Postby supergirl » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:22 pm

Cant believe some people are suggesting people shouldnt be allowed to change system whichever way. Anyone who works are paying the schools and the nhs through thei taxes. When people are leaving the states school system they are paying twice therefore giving a paid for-free place to a child whose either deliberately want their children to stay in the state system or dont work or would never ever be able to afford an independant school.

Also people circumstances change. How about parents whi couldnt afford fees but then ine of them change job, inherited or grand parents offering to pay so all of sudden they can so they change.

We are lucky to live in a country that values freedom.
supergirl
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Re: state to independent

Postby supergirl » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:24 pm

*whose parents*

*one of them*
livegreen
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Re: state to independent

Postby livegreen » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:28 pm

Agree that people are free to move from state to independent and back as they please - provided places are available.

I do not agree that people who go private are paying twice.
If people want to pay extra for independent schools that is their choice, if they do not want to use their place in a state school that is their choice.
If I buy a book to read rather than using a library I do not pay twice.
If I pay for private health I do not pay twice - I am buying an enhanced service, but if I get knocked over I want an NHS ambulance to pick me up.

Strange that people think they are paying twice.
mungomuffit
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Re: state to independent

Postby mungomuffit » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:02 pm

State schools are not free (unless you don't pay tax) You pay for your state school education through your taxes, so if you opt to go private you are paying those fees, plus still for the state school place, so you are essentially subsidising someone else to have the state school place. Same concept as if you opt for a private hospital rather than St Georges etc you are still paying for it. Sorry if I am missing the point, but it seems pretty simple to me.
LidoLady
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Re: state to independent

Postby LidoLady » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:56 am

2 points I'd likel to make:

Interestingly, there are plenty of examples in our area of parents who educate their children privately up to GCSE and then move them to state 6th forms because they believe it will help with university entrance, a process a friend described as 'rapacious'.

And it should not be forgotten that, like the ambulance that will pick you up if you get knocked down, state schools have to take children who have been excluded from private schools or whose parents can no longer afford the fees.
So they are a choice, but also a safety net.