Careers advice for young girl Post Reply

[graceygirl]

Also lots of the big consultancies are moving away from just grads, many offering great apprenticeship schemes which I would recommend her looking into for non grads etc. ( Big 4 in particular)

[Confus_ed]

She believes that based on her expected GCSE grades that she will be unable to get into a "decent" university and that most high flying careers will be closed off to her. This is probably true. And if it is not true for her then it must, by definition be true, for the majority of people as there aren't enough high flying jobs for everyone otherwise they'd be just called "jobs"

Christ this is depressing. She hasn't even sat her GCSEs yet!

I think you are wrong on two fronts.

1. That graduate schemes are beyond those not at top-tier universities

I've interviewed people for training contracts and these days there is a lot of pressure to widen access to the professions so whilst anything below a 2:1 rules you out, as long as you clear that barrier then your CV is considered as a whole. When we interview we aren't told what university the candidate went to precisely for this reason. Of course that does get factored into the final decision but it's quite a fluid exercise - essentially you'd give pluses for Oxbridge, neutral for RG uni, minus for anything less BUT this can be counter-balanced by the rest of the CV. So an Oxbridge grad with no extra-curriculars would impress less than someone from a lesser University who'd run the student union, played a lot of sport, done charity work, loads of work experience etc... You really don't need to be a genius to be a good lawyer so anything that shows you have the other skills a lawyer needs is valuable (in the early years mainly just an ability to work bloody hard).

It's not easy (mainly because the Oxbridge grads know this and will have done lots of extra stuff too) but it is not an absolute bar.

2. Focusing only on 'high-flying careers'.

What counts as high-flying? What are we actually talking about? I suspect in this context you are using high-flying to mean well paid.

There's such a bubble around here that our children will tend to be surrounded by parents and friends' parents who work in the city. But these aren't the only 'high-flying' careers. They are the well paid ones which isn't the same thing.

There are so many fulfilling careers out there (both for graduates and non-graduates) but it doesn't sound like your friend's daughter has really considered what she wants to do. It's as if she's thought well if I can't be a banker/lawyer then next best thing is to work for one.

So even without the knowledge that her choice was also partly motivated by a completely misguided belief that this will also help her land a rich husband I would not think "sensible person".

No double standard - it is the same point. She is completely failing to think about what sort of job she might actually enjoy which should always be the key consideration.

[livegreen]

This whole thread is so sexist!
Why has the original poster highlighted the sex issue.
If this was genuine it would ask question "what career advice should we offer a 15 year old child?"
The fact the poster made this discussion about 15 year old girls is a sexist disgrace.
The answer to the sexist question originally posted is exactly the same advice you would offer a 15 year old boy you sexist ****

[Flowermummy]

Millymoo, I so agree with you!
"aim high and dream big" - I think every parent should teach their children this (irrespective of the sex of the child)!
Lack of ambition is worse than not being academic!!
I am always gobsmacked when I see very well educated kids (private school, very good uni) that end up in average jobs that they don't really enjoy ... vs. young driven "immigrants" educated at average state schools in continental Europe that end up in high flying jobs - I put this down to the ambition that their parents instilled in them (i may be wrong, of course).

Sounds to me like the parents of the girl really need to get involved in trying to broaden her horizons.
Perhaps the mothers of her friends are bad role models for her.

[Seb]

Perhaps the mothers of her friends are bad role models for her.

I'm not sure I would use the word "bad" but perhaps not ideal.

The only mother working was a (divorced) accountant and she is currently without a partner. The others were all SAHM who had had careers but stopped.

[Flowermummy]

Seb, I was thinking of the mothers of the girl's friends (as her family would have no control on the ideas she gets from her friends), I think you refer to the friends of the girl's mother ... doesn't matter that much, in any case...

Most SAHMs who had careers stop working precisely because they want to focus on the education of the children, to be able to monitor their development and perhaps teach them things not covered in school ... so in theory I would expect most SAHM to be very keen to talk to their 15 years old child about future career paths, especially if this is not properly covered at the girls school.
Perhaps her parents just lost sight of what's important, but perhaps they need to quickly prioritise exploring potential career paths with their daughter, and generally instilling in her the idea that she can still aim high.

[Flowermummy]

Anecdotally...
We were at a dinner party with a family of a 15 years old girl...the mother is a SAHM who has never worked and was hoping for her daughter to find a good husband (shock horror !!) ...the father is a successful consultant at a top London hospital and was hoping for his daughter to become a doctor ... different perspectives...

[millymoo]

Also worth noting that role models can be all sorts of people of different ages, genders and backgrounds and not just those that we might automatically associate with being a role model. Unconscious bias starts at a very early age but the sooner we know what our biases (we all have them and they are not necessarily bad) are the easiest it is to channel into some productive. Gender bias is a particular area of focus at my firm at the moment. I didn't mean to get philosophical but this is a very interesting topic!

[firsttimerSW11]

I spoke about this thread to my husband who remarked like someone else above about role models, but in the sense that with so many wealthy SAHMs in this area who have pretty nice lives, if that is your female role model then is it any wonder why a 15 year old might want to get that for herself? And given most SAHMs around here have relatively high flying husbands - because let's face it, there are not many SAHMs in this neighbourhood who don't have high earning spouses - and have a nice life based on their husbands decent salary, isn't that what the 15 year old witnesses day in day out? So why would anyone think she wouldn't want that.

I'm aware that I sound old fashioned (to say the least), however having both witnessed and lived the life of 1) a high flying career working parent and 2) a SAHM with a high earning husband, I definitely think that the stress levels of a working mother who faces a daily commute, working long hours, trying to do all the admin that running a home entails on top of a 50 hour work week are far higher than those of a SAHM. Yes looking after kids is relentless but there is no commute, there's the gym, coffees, lunches, playdates etc.
It's a far nicer (easier) life ultimately. And one enjoyed by many women in this neighbourhood. The 15 year old sees this and thinks, yep, I want that life. Fair enough really.
(That said, I wouldn't wish it on anyone in their 20s, far too young imho)

[LastMumStanding]

So - for me this boils down to CHOICE and opportunities. I want my daughter to have the self esteem to believe she is worth investing in, to have an education that enables her to be the best she can be and achieve all she wants to so that she never feels she has to "settle". I want her yo find a partner with whom she is intellectually equal so that their marriage is defined by mutual respect, challenge and support. She needs to be able to fend for and support herself in this world because she cannot rely on someone else to always do it for her - we never know what life will throw at us - if she chooses to stay at home and raise her children then great! But it will be a choice made in the knowledge that it is not the only path open to her. What I find so sad in this story is that this girl does not seem to think she can or should stand on her own two feet - that is a highly risky strategy - and for adults to support her in that view is irresponsible.

[Scottov]

Of course any 15 year old girl should want more herself, and the idea that future career success is determined by gcse's is more than nonsense; as is the idea that success = university => profession => career; but I wonder how unusual this girls aspirations are?

Perhaps a better question is why do so many girls want to be footballers & wags? Numerous studies have shown grown in this area. This is the same thing, self worth expressed through sexual currency

What role the media with its constant portrayal of gender imbalances - why try?
The media with the impossible burden of student loans - too much!

Roll models like wags & fake celebrities and harpy SAHMs?

Maybe if she had role models celebrating achievement and the nourishing of the soul that good work provides, then the endeavours of her labours wouldn't seem so fruitless?

[LastMumStanding]

Wow - I'm finding some of the characterising of local SAHMs in this thread really shocking.

I do not know a single one who has reached where she is today through the strategy proposed by this young girl. All bar one had a successful, rewarding career for many years before taking the (often difficult) decision to step away to spend some time investing in their children rather than employing someone else to share this role. Several have started up business ventures on the side, some have started new jobs part time, many give freely of their time as school Governors and charity trustees using the numerous skills and experience they gained through their working life. Every one of them is an individual I admire and respect for the sacrifices they have made and the balancing act they achieve.

[kindfacilitator]

Marriage and the concept of marriage shouldn't be taken lightly so some early discussion even at 15 might help. I wonder what this thread would look like should the dream change where the earning capacity dwindled through illness or the couple later didn't feel they were for each other anymore.


Why not shift the thinking as a family and focus on the reason why we celebrate Christmas. Not the commercial reason but the one which has us celebrating the birth of light and freedom shining in the darkness.

Keep going and thanks for making us think

[supergirl]

I agree with you Lastmumstanding.

According to the last few posts I am really screwing up my daughters as I am your typical stereotype bar 2 exceptions: i am not blond and i do not live BTC (but in SW11).

My husband and I strongly believe that anyone can be a role model whether you work or not. Being a role model is about modelling behaviours and responses to the (many) challenges life throws at you I believe.
Dream big Aim high yes but it takes different paths for everyone to achieve their dreams.

All this judgmental attitudes is what is wrong.

[Balance]

Would say that Seb's lack of understanding of the world his wife and the other half of the human population from him live in and the violent discrimination we face from men is lamentable. What is the purpose of hate speech in ****** if not to show that women are seen as degenerate sex objects by most men? Where does he think discriminatory violence DV comes from and the fact that 3 out of 4 girls has experienced hate speech in school, 1 in 3 has experienced a hate attack? Really? Does he live in the same world as the rest of us?