Traditional Christmas is causing issues with girlfriend Post Reply

[XmasDinner]

I’d really appreciate some advice.

My girlfriend and I live together, and our relationship is serious—we’re planning a future together, and I fully expect we’ll get married. We’re both professionals with good careers, and things are generally great between us.

I saw a thread about spending Christmas apart from family, and while that’s not quite my issue, I have a related dilemma around family traditions during the holidays.

Here’s the situation: My mum received a call from my grandmother last week. My grandparents host Boxing Day every year, and my grandmother asked if my girlfriend would be "okay" with the usual traditions. She framed it in a way that felt a bit loaded, saying something about how my girlfriend is known to be "strong-willed" (her words, not mine) and wondered if she might "cause a scene."

The tradition in question is that the women in the family prepare lunch and then afterwards tidy and wash up while the men go for a walk, stop by the local pub for a drink, and then come back for party games. This has never been an issue before because the women in my family are mostly older and stay-at-home mums. However, my girlfriend feels very strongly about not participating in this tradition. She’s said she’d much rather join the walk and skip the gendered division of labor altogether.

My grandfather is very traditional, and my grandmother is framing this as "doing something nice for him" rather than what my girlfriend sees as outdated and misogynistic. My girlfriend has suggested that we use this as an opportunity to politely challenge the tradition, and she’s even said everyone can "blame her" for shaking things up—she doesn’t mind being the scapegoat.

I’m torn. I really love my grandparents and don’t want to upset them, but I also fully support my girlfriend and her stance.

No judgment, please, but I’d love advice on how to navigate this in a way that keeps the peace while staying true to our values.

[sid_seal]

I know from personal experience that choices regarding Christmas lunch initially dictated by pure convenience then become habits, then before you know they become traditions, and any proposal, even if dictated by common sense, to chance decade-long habits will always be met with resistance.
However, if I were your girlfriend I would dread the thought of spending the post-lunch time with my future mother-in-law and her female family members tidying up.

Why don't you take it as an occasion to change things for the better?
E.g., propose that the older generations take a rest and the younger generations (you, your girlfriend, any siblings/cousins, both men and women) do the tidying up?

Then the older generations, men or women, can decide if they want to relax, go to the pub or play board games. Your grandad would still get his pub walk.

Don't pass the buck on to your girlfriend, take the initiative yourself. Surely you can see you she would find the thought of spending the afternoon in the kitchen with the other women awkward to say the least?

[chorister]

This is not meant to be remotely judgemental, but as a man with over 40 years marriage (to the same person!) and counting beneath his belt I think I can say for certain that there will be many more much more significant compromises that you will have to work out, and also that you will both have to figure out how to park the ideology.  If you love someone and want to share your life with them then does it really, really matter who does the washing up?  And may be give your grandmother credit for having the sensitivity to ask.

For whatever reason people do value habits and traditions - one day you and your girlfriend will look back on your life and wonder why and how you have developed some inconsequential habit or other, but will be loathe to change it because, well, it's become part of who you are.

[Greyskies]

Honestly could not think of a worse way to spend Christmas than being part of a group of women waiting hand and foot on the men. I can feel my toes curling just imagining it. This “tradition” presumably dates back to the times that women stayed at home and were financially dependent on their menfolk. It was bad enough then but this is 2024 not 1824. I assume your girlfriend has a job and is her own person. Why on earth would she want to spend Christmas Day skivvying in the kitchen while you and the other blokes have a lovely walk and a visit to the pub?

But you are putting her in a really difficult situation  - and as you are part of the host family you have to resolve this. You could, as the poster above suggests, try and make this a generational thing. But I bet that will go down like a led balloon with the men and older women.  So at very least YOU have to say YOU will stay behind and cook and clean with the women. And even then, that might not appeal to your girlfriend. 

It is actually really rude of the older members of the family to impose this outdated ritual on a guest. Why would you invite someone to slave in the kitchen? 

[Greyskies]

Honestly could not think of a worse way to spend Christmas than being part of a group of women waiting hand and foot on the men. I can feel my toes curling just imagining it. This “tradition” presumably dates back to the times that women stayed at home and were financially dependent on their menfolk. It was bad enough then but this is 2024 not 1824. I assume your girlfriend has a job and is her own person. Why on earth would she want to spend Christmas Day skivvying in the kitchen while you and the other blokes have a lovely walk and a visit to the pub?

But you are putting her in a really difficult situation  - and as you are part of the host family you have to resolve this. You could, as the poster above suggests, try and make this a generational thing. But I bet that will go down like a led balloon with the men and older women.  So at very least YOU have to say YOU will stay behind and cook and clean with the women. And even then, that might not appeal to your girlfriend. 

It is actually really rude of the older members of the family to impose this outdated ritual on a guest. Why would you invite someone to slave in the kitchen? 

[sconesplease]

This is a bit tricky, I understand your grandparents having always done things a certain way, but I also see your girlfriends point of view and I would feel the same.  I read your post to my husband who replied "if you're not going to participate in their traditions, then don't go!" which made me laugh as I told him that if his parents expected this of me, I wouldn't go! our grandparents have both passed and maybe I would feel a bit differently if it was my grandparent.

You never know, the family might actually end up enjoying the day more if things were mixed up a little. If not, you could stay behind with your girlfriend and help tidy up and then either leave (and not return), or go for a walk together on your own and come back later on for games. And maybe some of the woman will join you next year

[ellesmum]

Rather than leaving this to your girlfriend to rebel against, why aren't you challenging this very outdated, very misogynistic ritual yourself? Quite frankly, if your girlfriend is as against this as you think, this could be a the make-or-break scenario for your relationship. Ignore the "It's tradition!" side of it and consider the actual scenario - are you really happy to go along with your girlfriend being your (and your male relatives') servant for the day whilst you go for a manly walk and discuss manly things in the pub?! Do you really not see anything wrong with that? How you react to this situation will show your girlfriend whether you view yourself as an equal partner in all things despite traditional gender divisions, or whether your upbringing has left you blinkered to inequality in the household. If I were her, I would be concerned that once you "got a ring on it" you would be happy for her to sacrifice herself, her career, to fulfil a traditional female role within your family.
My suggestion - you take this one for your team of 2. You stand up to your grandparents and say that you will stay behind and help with the cooking and clear up, because you are not an infant and don't need women giving their unpaid labour so that you can enjoy your leisure time with The Men. If you don't change this tradition, do you really want to support a future where you could potentially have daughters who are raised to think it is their duty to wait on the menfolk?! The only way we will ever get equality for our daughters is if male allies start growing some balls, standing up and saying "this isn't OK" & educating their misogynistic grandfathers, fathers, brothers, and friends to treat women as equals.
I'm sorry, I know you asked for "no judgement ", but it is very hard not to say to you that, as an enlightened woman of 2024 who has had to do a lot of therapy relating to the affects of gender gaps, the fact that you're having to ask if it's OK to ask your girlfriend to play along with this deep seated abuse of male privilege when it is obviously something she feels strongly about is concerning. You should be saying "No, I won't support this outdated tradition" & not putting it on your girlfriend to have to be the one who says it. Unless, deep down, you do actually see this as an acceptable form of labour division?

[Happy Valley]

Interesting how it's men saying 'if you don't like it don't go'. Funny that...

 

[dhcwong]

Traditions and old people take years to change. This is the beginning of your own years long journey of love and marraige. The last thing you need is to create family drama because of 'that woman'! That will set you up for years of strife.   

Brilliant idea of the others to suggest that you stay back and wash up.  Quietly take your stand, smile, wash up and be with your girlfriend and then join them in the pub afterwards.  

After a few years, make the men folk take the pram to the pub walk (make them do a 'womanly thing) and you can wash up with your girfriend (and your brother if you have one?)  

When your kids (girl or boys) grow, make them wash up with you. Soon, the oldies will see the younger generation washing up are all mixed gender and things will change. SLOWWWLY. 

Everyone needs to adjust when families change, take your time with it. You will be surprised on how parents will change if you give them a few months/years to get used to an idea - my parents actually stopped eating sharksfin soup (!! yes i know) after i told them nicely i would be declining in 1995... after a few years they were saying to their friends 'I'm so sorry i can't buy this dish because of my crazy green daughter'. Now it's 'no one eats it anymore. We haven't done so for years!'  

good luck 




 

[Dingdong]

Some traditions are not good. This is one of them. When I was a child we would all laugh at a man pushing a pram because he looked feminine to us. Not now.
Understand your grandfather may want an all male walk. So all set off together in 2 groups and meet at the pub. Absolutely no way should the women be staying behind to clear up, and you obviously know that.
I would also add that my husband has done very little to let me down over our twenty odd years together, but one of the few and symbolic things that still rankles was him expecting me to tiptoe around his very traditional parents at Christmas (I am pretty traditional myself, but not as much as them) and asking me to accept things that were unacceptable - and which I wish I had not accepted as it set the wrong foundation for my future relationship with my parents-in-law. This is an opportunity for you to set a new standard and show you belong to the 21st century and make your girlfriend feel welcome and not like an alien visiting the 1950s.

[Jellybean]

Obviously a tricky one & nobody wants to fall out over this. I suggest a fun way to resolve this is to say, 'Let's start a new tradition!' Put the different chores on pieces of paper & put them into a hat folded up & let everyone pull out a chore! We did this on Christmas Eve a couple of years ago when we had Christmas with good friends & our grown up kids. Chores like: Christmas morning: take everyone tea & coffee in bed /light the fire/ put on Christmas music/peel the potatoes/do the sprouts/Lay the table/light the candles/walk the dog/carve the turkey/clear the table/wash the glasses/dry the glasses/load the dishwasher/empty the dw....etc. This was one of the best Christmases we have had because usually I end up doing half of those things...just because nobody really thinks to offer & it can be a bit hard work delegating. The same could apply to boxing day?? You all get a duty after the meal, then you all go for a walk & go to the pub together!

[Scottov]

This is not meant to be remotely judgemental, but as a man with over 40 years marriage (to the same person!) and counting beneath his belt I think I can say for certain that there will be many more much more significant compromises that you will have to work out, and also that you will both have to figure out how to park the ideology.  If you love someone and want to share your life with them then does it really, really matter who does the washing up?  And may be give your grandmother credit for having the sensitivity to ask.

For whatever reason people do value habits and traditions - one day you and your girlfriend will look back on your life and wonder why and how you have developed some inconsequential habit or other, but will be loathe to change it because, well, it's become part of who you are.

This chap gets it, and perhaps reflect more closely along these lines.

Firstly, this is not a tradition that is over-egging the pudding somewhat, it's a little routine or ritual of no consequence.  I doubt anyone thinks otherwise, and this matter has nothing to do with this or any other little ritual.

This is about the fear that your partner is the sort of person likely to make themselves the centre of attention, when it's not all about them.  Your grandparents didn't take the decision to reach out to you lightly.

Hosting family gatherings is quite burdensome, even though a joy, as grandparents and elderly relations get older.  The role of other family members and guests is to lift some of that load, and instead they're worried your partner will make a scene - the opposite of a considerate guest.  that must be very stressful for them.

Whether it's this or something else, they are hoping you'll have a word and remind her that you are both guests and that there are other people involved.

My guess, and it's not worth very much, that this little routine has developed as a chance for the girls to have a moment together, gossip, share some stories without the men folk; and vice versa for the men.  Your family don't need a righteous, self-appointed saviour telling them what's what.  Even if you think she has a point, and she might indeed, but this is hardly the time.

Her clarity of thought might be one of the things you love about her, but she needs to considerate of others and not assume that everyone else are unreconstructed cavemen and women.  It's just not that important, or at all.  and it's certainly not all that important what one invited guests happens to think about every little thing.

whatever you do, don't make the mistake of thinking this is about a little ritual.  it's about good grace, manners and sharing the load at Christmas not adding to it.  

You have been put in an unenviable position, and perhaps try to explain it like that.  they're your family, they are important to you, and perhaps not trying to get everyone offside is not so much to ask. 

 

[supergirl]

I do agree with Scottov to some extend but I also agree with Chorister’s answer.

It s a fine line between being a good guest and being a good host.

20yrs ago and counting I spent my first christmas at my in laws. It was the most fun (board games) and the most boring christmas I had ever been to. The first glass of wine I got was at 3 when we were about to sit down for xmas dinner. I m not suggesting I wanted to be pissed but in my family we cook and drink all together.

Not there. The women cooked, the men were served first, no xmas eve - living in London meant we had to travel at least the night before. Yes there was fun with the board games, but my girl power inner me was fuming.

As much as my in laws are lovely i think they were rude host not having a single clue of what a guest who is there for the first time might be feeling. Amd I swear I m very happy with my inner self and can look after myself. It didnt help that the man who was to become the father of my children and husband reverted to being the golden boy .

20 years later my husband, the youngest son of the family if he is here and I are the hosts if we have guests from outside the family.
My mother in law has slow down and is finally happily letting me into the kitchen now to cook, if my sisters in law want to serve their husband first good for them, my husband serves me first. If I want a glass of vino I help myself. And if I dont want to clean up well my sisters in law can do it themselves and actually my husband helps too.

Bottom line.
You dont need to break this tradition - which I find distasteful btw.

But you need to live and let live. She has to be a grateful guest, and them generous hosts.

She does not have to help with the cooking and cleaning even if she stays behind. You warn everyone that she will do what she feels comfortable doing and so should them WITHOUT JUDGMENT.

and you could suggest to her that you ll go on a walk with her only and you may or may not join in the pub or back to the house and then you join them in the pub.

It really doesnt have to be difficult.

[southoftheriver]

Im also in the camp of "christmas is about traditions" and trying to shake things up on her first Xmas with the grandparents doesnt feel respectful.  If she is also serious about rest of life with you, she should respect your family and its traditions ...

So how about a half-way house / compromise :  (1) Can you agree with your girlfriend that she honours the tradition this year (perhaps its not as bad as she fears) and in future years you would be willing to challenge the tradition ?  Perhaps next year you spend xmas with her parents, so this is a topic every 2 years .. but then you will have kids and christmas routines will never be the same again lol or (2) she honours the tradition, but then catches you up in the pub ?

[Countess Binface]

I notice this is Boxing day not Christmas day.

Agree with another poster, the invitation is there, if your girlfriend doesn't want to participate, don't go or go later.

It is not her call to dictate what happens at your grandparents and it is best not to enter into disputes, disagreements at Christmas time especially.
In my family the brothers always cooked well and we didn't have this division of labour but every family is different.

She proposes to marry into yours, but is already criticising them ? Wow . They are your family, it's a red flag that unless you agree which you have not specifically said.
When she has her own family and is chief Grandma she can boss everyone around as she likes ;)