Traditional Christmas is causing issues with girlfriend Post Reply

[Countess Binface]

Some women don't enjoy cooking or can't cook well (is this the real issue?) but you can learn a lot from others , I have in past eg how to make a decent gravy, proper roast potatoes, a decent French dressing etc.
Cooking isn't to be looked down on and takes years of practice I found.
Gratitude and acceptance is the order of the day for me at Christmas.

Everybody likes eating (well practically) so someone has to cook not everyone fits in the kitchen.

[Mum2Girlz]

I really feel for your grandparents over this. It’s so hard for their generation, many of the views and traditions aren’t at all PC but at their age, and Christmas of all times, I’d be asking my partner not to upset my family.
Especially the most elderly, we never know how many Christmases we have left with them.
When I met my future husband, and now 18 years later, I wanted his family to like and accept me, and made an effort to muck in, even though in my family my Dad does everything while the rest of us relax.
Hopefully she feels the same about you. She will appreciate that you understand that it’s outdated and sexist but that’s what they’ve always done, and you’ll make it up to her later!
Are you also spending time with her family?

[Suebe]

Frankly I think that with your elderly grandparents hosting Boxing Day you should respect their traditions. The fact that your grandmother rang your mother to express concerns about your feisty girlfriend is indicative that she is perhaps not respectful to your family. I think you should enjoy having elderly grandparents you won’t have forever . Good luck with your future with your choice of a wife! Things with family don’t always go your way but as a grandchild look up to your elders . Don’t worry or disappoint them . It’s Christmas ,the time of joy and kindness.

[Suebe]

Frankly I think that with your elderly grandparents hosting Boxing Day you should respect their traditions. The fact that your grandmother rang your mother to express concerns about your feisty girlfriend is indicative that she is perhaps not respectful to your family. I think you should enjoy having elderly grandparents you won’t have forever . Good luck with your future with your choice of a wife! Things with family don’t always go your way but as a grandchild look up to your elders . Don’t worry or disappoint them . It’s Christmas ,the time of joy and kindness.

[Scottov]

I would also wonder what your partner expects to happen?  

does she want everyone else to drop their routine for her, or does she just want to come with you on the walk and go to the pub?

the former is obviously unreasonable, the latter perhaps a little easier.


 

[glasshalffull]

Maybe because of my strained relationship over the years with my MIL, this rings all sorts of alarm bells: The writer says: my grandmother asked if my girlfriend would be "okay" with the usual traditions. She framed it in a way that felt a bit loaded, saying something about how my girlfriend is known to be "strong-willed" (her words, not mine) and wondered if she might "cause a scene."

This reads to me like stirring things up quite frankly - either by the Grandmother or the mother (MIL to be) because of the language used, ie is Granny wanting to see who is still the most important by manipulating the situ to see which route is chosen, or is the MIL-to-be reporting it in a way that suggests the girlfriend is already at fault - bearing in mind at this point she hasn't actually been asked/confirmed if she will go, let alone abide by the Christmas 'tradition'.

Are they inferring she has 'caused a scene' about something else? It sounds like they think the girlfriend is bratty and prone to throwing tantrums, have there been other family situ's where things haven't been controlled in the way Grandma/MIL would like? If my mother said this to me about my son's girlfriend, I would definitely pull her up and say something along the lines of don't worry about it mum, they do things differently now and I am sure <girlfriend> will be happier going to the pub rather than hanging out with us old things - or something suitably gentle, rather than reporting or embellishing the tone back to the son and making it his, or worse, his girlfriend's responsibility.

The girlfriend is now in the awful situ of either having to bow out by not attending at all or forcing herself into a trip to the pub - and then the MIL and Granny resenting her. Or having to subject herself to a possibly very dull afternoon of waiting hand and foot on the men whilst they go off and do all the fun stuff. She cannot make a good decision in this situation as someone will be subjugated.

Having a husband who never dealt with his mother when, quite frankly, she was completely out of control and a monster to me for many years because 'it wasn't worth creating a scene' meant it caused a lot of resentment from me to my husband (if it had been my mother behaving like it I would have pulled her up on it straight away and not let it repeat) and huge amounts of stress for me around visiting or spending time with his parents for me as I never knew when she would strike. I have always resented him and her for it and envied friends who have great relationships with their MILs. I will never be able to have a full relationship with my MIL even though I am now stronger/older to push back and she has mellowed a bit (possibly because she knows that I just won't take her crap any more). The irony was she hated her MIL so you would have thought she might have been sympathetic. If I were the girlfriend I would be very wary of the whole situ on all sides and the boyfriend needs to stand up on her behalf definitely.

Unless of course I have this completely wrong, and, in fact, the female grandees get the boring men out of the way and kick back with shots and kitchen dancing the moment the men are out of the way...one can but hope.

[funandfrolics]

So many things wrong with the way your grandmother says things...

First, let's make it clear that both young and old people deserve respect and that older people are not automatically kind or fair for being old. 

You yourself admit he comments were "loaded, saying something about how my girlfriend is known to be "strong-willed" (her words, not mine) and wondered if she might "cause a scene." Your grandmother is already looking for trouble, in my opinion. And let's be honest, there are a lot of misogynistic women out there who like to shame women. Good on your girlfriend from calling your grandmother's bluff and wanting to change things and happy to take the blame. She is a sport. 

Your grandmother also said she wanted to do something nice for your grandfather, however, you cannot do things nice for someone you choose, with the help of others without asking if they want to. That causes SO much trouble and pain.  Do want you want to do but do not force others because you don't want to be on your own or miss the fun, with the 'excuse' of tradition. It is funny how most traditions, specially cleaning, seem to always be the women's job. 

The best way to tackle this is, in my opinion, as with everything, with a bit of humour. Just say your girlfriend is such a modern girl that she will burn everything when cooking and will break things when cleaning. That you and her will go for a walk on your own and be back later. You need to be prepared to laugh off all the nasty comments that she will get later...

Or you could just say that you are both fluid in gender, so in order to avoid confusion to older generations, you will go for a walk on your own...

Have fun!

[XmasDinner]

Thank you all for your responses—this blew up in a way I never expected!

I’ve already tried the “Hey, it’s a tradition, please go with it” approach, but my girlfriend’s main point is that if a tradition is inherently sexist, then it’s fundamentally flawed and doesn’t deserve respect.

To take her reasoning further, she argues that if a tradition were rooted in racism, no one would accept “it’s tradition” as a valid defense.

I might share this thread with her if I’m feeling particularly brave.

Thanks again for all your input!

[Scottov]

So she wants to save all the poor, unknowing females in your family from the oppression they’re too backward to recognise!

And she wants them to all stop what they’re doing, because she knows best.

That’s not great

[chorister]

@XmasDinner - me again.

I think your girlfriend should read some history before being so judgemental about traditions etc being inherently anything.  For example, read about Victorian civil servants who gave their whole lives to living in a total alien environment to bring agriculture, education, the rule of law etc etc to "the colonies".  We condemn that now - but actually those were good idealistic people, probably not unlike you or I or your girlfriend, who thought they were doing something generous.  It's very humbling if you stop and think about it.  It is simply not tenable to condemn everyone who has different values and traditions.

[Paulette]

How interesting! 
I'm a very strong-minded working woman. So I can see why the idea of we do all the work and the men are being served just makes the blood boil.

Old people have lived in a world were lots of things are inappropriate now and were totally fine back then, you can't blame them too much for not adjusting...  But fair enough if you don't want to continue it.

I think if it was my first time, I would say OK let me give it a try as a 1-experiment (with a genuine open mind) and 2 - find a way to bound with my family in law. 

I'd be nice once and do it, then I'd take it from there and maybe next year organise something else for our Xmas. 
But I'd give it a chance. Sometimes the chatting in the kitchen whilst men are away can gold.

 

[MVM]

I'm quite surprised at just how many ppl think it's ok for years and decades to leave the cooking to the women and the fun to the men.

I would be just as appalled as your girlfriend that people think it's ok to live like this. That being said I don't think she can dictate what happens in someone else's household, just what she wants to do in this situation.

That might very well be to stay away. Question is, if she does, what will you do?

[Londontownlady]

It sounds like your gf has the rest of her life with you to make new traditions. Why don’t you explain how much this would mean to you and if she could please just do it for one day? And next year you’ll make an excuse with your family not to attend.

On a side note, there are lots of traditions which are outdated, including the father of the bride walking the bride down the aisle - symbolic of giving her away to another man. Bride wearing white, the wife taking the husband’s surname, and the kids too. All of these do not belittle women.. they’re just part of our traditions. Does she feel strongly she won’t do any of the above too?

Good luck!

[Ding Dong]

‘On a side note, there are lots of traditions which are outdated, including the father of the bride walking the bride down the aisle - symbolic of giving her away to another man. Bride wearing white, the wife taking the husband’s surname, and the kids too. All of these do not belittle women.. they’re just part of our traditions. ‘

I very much disagree with the above - these hangover traditions do reduce and diminish women, especially being given away and being expected to lose your surname (unless you want to).

However, I now realise we are talking about your grandparents not your parents - my mistake. This changes things. Maybe they are in their 80s. Who knows how many more Boxing Day trips to the pub your grandfather has left.

I would ensure that you and she do a load of prep, cleaning and washing up together and that you two go for a short walk separately and you then go alone to join your grandfather at the pub. Just be sure to be there when they arrive as you will have been missed on the walk.

As others have said it’s good to have principles and stand up for them, but there has to be some give and take. Worth making a stand with your parents, but not your grandparents. You sound a bit intimidated by your gf, btw.

[Countess Binface]

So many assumptions above.

Who says its necessarily 'fun' to go to a pub on Christmas Day or that cooking is so detestable and un-fun'? Pretty certain the latter is for practical reasons ie they are better at it in grandmas house, not some complicated prejudicial situation.


Regarding the comments above re Grandma stirring things up, sounds like she is simply saying it how it is - it's your girlfriend digging her heels in with university politics at an inappropriate time to assert her own views as it sounds like Grandma has seen it before.
She is not even married into the family yet.

I would wager she would drop her stance if you had said its tradition for the men to cook and the women go to the pub. lol