Parent smacking someone else’s child Post Reply

[Playdate Disaster]

Last weekend, my child went with their best friend (child A) and others to a group playdate at a friend’s house (friend B). They are all 11. My child and A were bickering over something trivial, when B’s father came into the room and smacked A hard on the bottom (but not my child). B’s mother was present but did not intervene. B explained this afterwards to the friends (who were all shocked) as “normal”. A was extremely upset but they all continued the playdate.
A’s mother collected her child but B’s mother did not tell her what had happened. Instead, she told A’s mum that A had been behaving really badly. (My child says it was just a normal small disagreement.)
My child told me, and obviously I was horrified. I called A’s mum (a good friend) and she is deeply shocked, and asked my advice on what to do. She wants to say something, but she doesn’t want to ruin the children’s friendship. She won’t let A go to B’s house again, but she is ok to have B to her house.
I now have a million questions in my head about what goes on in that household, although they seem like a happy family (but perhaps nothing is wrong except that the dad is still smacking his 11-year-old). But what should I advise A’s mum to do? I’ve just said I think she should tell B’s mum what she understands happened, and let B’s mum react or explain as she wishes. A’s mum can then make it clear that smacking other people’s children is not acceptable. Perhaps that gives B’s mum the opportunity to say something if there are wider issues, or even just recognise for herself that it isn’t normal if she has convinced herself that it is. But should one do more? As an additional complexity, B’s family are moving abroad in a few weeks.
Please be kind in your replies - we are all aware (apart from possibly B’s family) that this is wholly wrong, so I wasn’t looking for condemnation of B’s parents. The question is really how to help A’s mum approach this appropriately, and whether you would say more in case B and B’s mother are victims of abuse.
I am sorry for throwing such a weird and sensitive question out there, but I really would appreciate advice. Can I please take the opportunity to say that if anyone reading this has ever suffered from domestic violence, there are many charities available to help, including Refuge and Victim Support.

[sconesplease]

How awful to trust that your child is going to be well looked after at a playdate only to find out they haven't been.  It's a shame it wasn't discussed immediately as soon as they were aware what had happened. 

Although it happened outside of school, your friend could speak to someone in the safe guarding team at school for advice, there might be other issues that have been raised with the school that you are not aware of. Can you speak to the Mum and ask if she needs any support rather than waiting for your friend to talk to her since your child was there and witnessed it. It's going to be an awkward conversation so there is not benefit in delaying it any longer.

 

[muddyboots]

Well it’s obviously crazy to behave like the dad did. I wouldn’t leave my child in their house again as if they think this is normal then you know all you need to know about them.

As did the friendship, I wouldn’t involve the kids and explain yourself because imagine how unfair it is for the child who’s got this parent to be further punished.

I would let them carry on the friendship but decline any invite or situation where the child is left in their care.

[Moonlightdawn]

Very dispiriting to read this post. How on earth do parents and carers still think it's acceptable to use physical punishment on children. After all the research suggesting that hitting a child can have harmful and lasting consequences... 

I agree with you that your friend should speak to the other mum. Ask her to clarify what happened. Your friend should also explain how distressing and upsetting it was for her 11-year old daughter to be smacked on the BOTTOM. So inappropriate, wrong and dehumanising. 

I would raise it with the school, the teacher and the safeguarding lead.  Although they are moving, I would consider logging it with the council and the police. 

Please don't apologise. You are right to be asking these questions. 

[supergirl]

Inam a safeguarding officer in one of my kids sports and i have been trained on the subject.

2 things she needs to do.

1)
I would tell A’s mum that she absolutely need to tell the school. The school have all the pieces of the jigsaw. If something dark is happening behind closed doors they would know or at least they would have a few piecea of the jigsaw. And that one last info on what happened could help the school piecing it all together and raise a case to the social workers.
Your friend isnt a social worker and / or trained for it. But she is a concerned and responsible adult so she needs to raise it with the school. They will know what to do with this information.

2) she needs to call B’s mum. Actually she doesnt necessarily need to but she should. I would.
She does not need to say that she has raised it with the school of she doesnt want to. I probably would disclose though as it is so massive and such a breach of everything: private space, parental authority, safeguarding, trust, to name but a few.

She needs to tell her whilst she will talk to her son regarding expected behaviours at someone’s house, under no circumstances is it acceptable to smack someone, anyone. It s aggressive and it s physical.
Let alone a child under your supervision. She needs to say that she would have expected to be called to pick up her child.
She needs to say that she is expecting an apology from the dad.

By telling the school, the school would have to inform the following school as well - proper procedure. Therefore the dad would be prevented to be involved with children in volunteering situation.

Please tell her to send me an MP if she wants to discuss further or has any questions.

Good luck to you both.

[sconesplease]

@supergil, I like your response copied below, but I wanted to ask, you mention below that "I probably would disclose" do you intend to say wouldn't - is this a typo? I only ask as this by telling the Mum or parents that she has informed the school this is inadvertently tipping them off? If there is an issue, this gives the family or Dad time to formulate a response and potentially coach their children on what to say/not what to say.



"2) she needs to call B’s mum. Actually she doesnt necessarily need to but she should. I would. 
She does not need to say that she has raised it with the school of she doesnt want to. I probably would disclose though as it is so massive and such a breach of everything: private space, parental authority, safeguarding, trust, to name but a few."

 

[chorister]

Not (sadly) having children I am not remotely qualified to comment on the specifics but at the same time I can’t help wondering whether anonymous posting on social media, without hearing anything of the other side of the story, is really the best way to address an issue which could tear a couple of families to pieces. The Stasi institutionalised anonymous denunciation as a way of controlling East Germany. Do we really want to risk that?

[Mummy2014]

You mean A was assaulted by B’s Dad while on a play date and your daughter witnessed it. This is abuse. How can A’s Mum not report it to the police immediately? If B’s Dad hit you hard on the bottom, what would you do? If a stranger hit you hard on the bottom what would you do? Why is it OK to assault a child?

The police need to know. They will report it to social services and the school needs to know.

If this man is so comfortable assaulting other people’s children - who can turn to their parents for help - imagine what he does to his own children who don’t have parents watching out for their welfare.

Why aren’t you taking this more seriously? A grown man has assaulted an 11 year old girl.

[Amiem39]

Please report this, either contact the safeguarding lead at your child’s school or make a referral to children’s social services. (Link below for Wandsworth) I am extremely worried for the children that live in that home.

https://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/health-an ... t-a-child/

[Mikeydon]

Chorister, your insight is invaluable as always,there’s nothing quite like a lecture on parenting from someone with zero firsthand experience. And the Stasi comparison? Brilliant! Because clearly, sharing a concern about a child’s wellbeing on social media is exactly the same as running a Cold War surveillance state. Your ability to inject unnecessary drama into the discussion is truly unmatched. Do go on, we’re all learning so much from you!”

[shadetortilla]

This situation is undeniably sensitive, and it’s important for A’s mother to address it thoughtfully. She should consider having an open conversation with B’s mother, sharing her concerns about the incident in a non-confrontational manner. A's mother could frame the discussion around the well-beingmoto x3m of all the children and express that she feels it’s important to ensure everyone feels safe during playdates. Setting clear boundaries by deciding that A won't return to B's house until there’s some clarity is a reasonable step and can be communicated as a protective measure for A. Additionally, A’s mother could gently encourage B's mother to reflect on her family's disciplining methods, emphasizing that parenting can be challenging and support is available if needed. Ultimately, it’s crucial for A's mother to reassure A that her feelings are valid and that what happened is not normal, fostering a sense of safety and support for her child. While these conversations might feel daunting, addressing the issue may lead to a healthier environment for both children and help B’s family consider more positive parenting practices.

 

[Guest Again]

It's not actually legal to smack a child. It's just that parents and caregivers have a defence of "reasonable chastisement" as long as the smack is not too hard, and the context means it is being used proportionately and with reason. It is almost never going to be seen as acceptable now for anyone but a parent to do it, and if the child is 1,1 so fully able to respond to reasoning and reprimand, and it was a minor disagreement, the defence threshold is not reached anyway.

So in the absence of any such defence, what happened was that an adult man violently assaulted an 11 year old girl left in his care.

The argument that nobody should tell anyone about this because it's like the Stasi is quite bizarre. Would the same principle apply if he'd struck his wife? Why is striking a little girl better than an adult woman?

He is fortunate this mother did not take it to the police, never mind the school.

[Conurn]

I don’t necessarily see mild (and obviously “reasonable”) chastisement of my own kids to be too massive a deal. As for long-term effects, we’re constantly being bombarded by reports that children are the unhappiest and most maladjusted they’ve ever been, so unsure that “gentle parenting” is doing any good at all. Certainly no better than much else in the history of parenting.

However, if someone else touched one of my kids, I would take it upon myself to ensure the perpetrator was on a liquid diet for months.

[chorister]

You are all correct, the comment re the Stasi was silly.  Sorry.  But the fact does remain that we will all have seen awful results from anonymous pile ons where only one side of astory is heard but a situation nevertheless escalates out of control.  

[Nvg]

Chorister - yes you are right. I’m afraid the Stasi remark was ridiculous and the analogy a terrible one. If you don’t have kids you’re not in a very good position to judge. Having your child smacked by another child’s father is off the scale in terms of current social mores and he very much should be reported to the school. I would be absolutely horrified if another parent had done that to my child. The only other side would be that the child is lying but since they weren’t the one being smacked why would they lie about it?