feeling ripped off between the commons

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Pud1
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Re: feeling ripped off between the commons

Postby Pud1 » Tue May 14, 2013 10:03 pm

There are many, many good schools in Wandsworth. You need to go and look at them yourself, with an open mind, and get a feel for them. You will know what suits your child best.
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Katskii1
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Re: feeling ripped off between the commons

Postby Katskii1 » Tue May 14, 2013 10:36 pm

I live too far from these schools for this to affect me but i really feel sorry for the those who it does as i believe sibling priority when out of catchment to be unfair. Could a big group of nappy valley mums not get a petition together for Honeywell and BV - this would at least highlight the problem and you may get local press coverage. As a former school governor I know schools are receptive to well organised community pressure. Someone just needs to throw their hat in the ring to organise it - good luck!
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JDMummy
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Re: feeling ripped off between the commons

Postby JDMummy » Wed May 15, 2013 12:05 am

Sad and scary! Katskii, totally agree with your suggestion. Any local mums can organise the petition? Will definitely sign it!
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Medway
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Re: feeling ripped off between the commons

Postby Medway » Wed May 15, 2013 6:28 am

Papinian - thanks for the figures...there does look like there has been some 'double counting' - but Original Poster there is your answer - it's siblings living out of catchment that are screwing over those who live near to these schools and should reasonably expect to get in - not dubious renters!

The house prices are insane - only people in certain types of job or with significant other/ family money can afford to live in these - lets face it - Victorian semis...This fact - which I feel makes the area a bit uniform/ samey/ lacking diversity had me running for the hills years ago even though I grew up BTC (when it was quite rough and Northcote Road was a fruit and veg market, not a French kids boutique in sight!)
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mamaclapham
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Re: feeling ripped off between the commons

Postby mamaclapham » Wed May 15, 2013 6:47 am

This is the answer I got from the council after having my petition refused on their website. It was a petition against the current admission criterias and checks on genuine renters(I will log it on another website)
Apparently the only way forward is to try and have them determine a pre-established area. We live 272mt from Honeywell and are n 41 on the nursery waiting list. Out of 64 places 54 were given to siblings.


Dear Ms ,
 
I am responding to your comments about the policy of giving priority to siblings irrespective of where they live. Giving priority to siblings in oversubscription criteria is a long-established principle which is endorsed by the Department for Education in its School Admissions Code. In primary schools, in particular, it is recognised as important that children can attend the same school, wherever possible.
 
In any year some siblings offered places will live outside of the immediate area around the school and therefore further than the distance of the last applicant offered a place under the proximity criterion. However, many of these still live locally and will have secured a reception place at the school in previous years when pressure on places was not as great as this year and children were admitted from further away. Others may have obtained a place for an older child through a vacancy arising in a higher age group where the pressure on places is not so great. The instance of these places being obtained through renting a property in the area whilst owning a property elsewhere is considered to be low. That said, and as made clear in Mr Belloli’s reply, the Council has a thorough address verification process in place and does what it can to expose fraudulent applications within the constraints of practicality of investigation and available resources.  
 
As Honeywell school does not have a pre-determined geographical priority area, there is no defined boundary (or what you describe as a ‘catchment area’) within which the school is expected to admit children. Although such areas are in place at a few other schools in the Borough, these were put in place many years ago to address the issue of some parents having access to several schools in the area, whilst others had no access to any local school.
 
Council officers have considered whether it would be possible to limit priority to siblings of children who live within a prescribed distance from a school, or to families whose address remains the same as when the older sibling was admitted. It was concluded that such restrictions would create difficulties for families moving locally or due to circumstances beyond their control, and would make it more difficult for parents to assess the potential outcome of their application when expressing their preferences. For both reasons, it was considered that such a limitation would be seen as lacking transparency and equity and would therefore be open to challenge under the School Admissions Code.
 
Officers judged, therefore, that the only means of giving a lower priority to siblings living some distance from a school would be to establish a pre-determined priority area, giving priority to all residents within it, over siblings living outside. That said, drawing boundary lines on the map can prove difficult unless they can be objectively justified.
 
The Governing Body of Honeywell School are the statutory Admission Authority for the school and any variation to the admission arrangements would need to be proposed by them. Admission Authorities are required to determine and publish their Admission Arrangements annually in the year prior to the academic year of admission. The Office of the Schools Adjudicator determines objections to admission arrangements where these are considered to be unlawful or not compliant with the School Admissions Code.
 
Yours sincerely,
 
Head of Pupil Services
 
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BalhamMumWorkingFT
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Re: feeling ripped off between the commons

Postby BalhamMumWorkingFT » Wed May 15, 2013 8:12 am

And this is why we are in private schools. The stress of the school entry and the black holes in Wandsworth nearly sent me over th edge. Especially when a family lived in Surry and commuted in! That can't be right?! Argh.
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JDMummy
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Re: feeling ripped off between the commons

Postby JDMummy » Wed May 15, 2013 8:35 am

Thank you Mamaclapham! Is it possible to write to the Governing body anf the Heads of both schools, collectively signed by local families?
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cynic
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Re: feeling ripped off between the commons

Postby cynic » Wed May 15, 2013 9:51 am

@MamaClapham

1) thank you for posting your reply from Wandsworth. I would point out that Pupil Services' reply is inconsistent & disingenuous.

You may recall the kerfuffle over the Forthbridge Rd/Meteor St site for Belleville which led to a second consultation. The council proposal in this was a complicated GPA set-up.
Now the actual details of the proposed GPAs were over-complicated & flawed (what a surprise), hence why within all 3 groupings many people involved ended up voted against it (This allowed Wandsworth to claim they had "tried to solve the problem", but people didn't want that solution...sigh)...blah blah

However my point is:
It is very clear that a GPA type set-up would be in fact permitted under the Admissions Code, as Wandsworth would not have suggested it previously otherwise! (I am very familiar with the Code also)

The straightforward thing to do is to set a GPA around a school that is a significantly larger in size that the recent admission distance (As an example only say it's ~1km, vs an admission distance of say a few hundred meters)
Then only if you live within that GPA do your siblings get priority, that's quite simple. Non-sibling applicants within the GPA also get priority, order worked out on distance as per before. (In fact though as the GPA is much larger than typical admissions there's never really an issue about giving non-siblings priority within the GPA as the distances are always less than GPA).
This system could reduce BOTH "out of area" sibling admission (which Papinian is absolutely correct is a big factor) AND short-term renters.
If you like, one could describe the GPA as the expected local community area of the school - as it would be quite large, it would enable families to move properties within it so they would not be as restricted as the Council reply claims

Obviously actual defining a GPA will be complicated, especially if there are several schools close together but it can be done.
GPAs have been successfully defined in Wandsworth* and in other areas of the country*
It doesn't have to be a distance but can be defined by streets, railway lines etc (very similar to an old-fashioned catchment area)

2) Sibling admission is a key part of this whole thing but people REALLY don't like to even talk about this.
Of course everyone supports the idea of siblings getting priority admission BUT IMHO you have to be able to draw a distinction between those who have moved but still live within the local community and those who have completely moved away, let's call them "out of area" siblings*
I would ask is there any real difference between:
a) a family who rent for 6-12months in the local area to gain access to a school but then return to their far away original home
b) a family who get one sibling-in and then move far away (for whatever reason) but are still sending that child and other siblings to the original school
You could say that neither family has particularly committed to the local community, (not on a timescale compared to the 7-years-plus of schooling they are expecting to receive)

If a family move properly away then IMHO their kids should move school -
a) it's not that disruptive for primary school children to move schools,
b) let's face it they don't actually live that close to their friends any more,
c) the long school run must be quite a pain.
Some may not like the idea because they worked so hard to get their first child into a school and they don't want to "do it all over again", but IMHO this is arguably fairer than other people being denied even a chance of a place at their genuinely local schools.
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maxey
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Re: feeling ripped off between the commons

Postby maxey » Wed May 15, 2013 10:27 am

Convert to Catholicism, the one true faith (!), and then you have great Catholic Primary schools in Wandsworth and great Catholic secondary schools in Fulham which you can go to. And don't let's get too excited - we're talking education here not religion...
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stayathomemuminsw11
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Re: feeling ripped off between the commons

Postby stayathomemuminsw11 » Wed May 15, 2013 11:52 am

On re-reading, I think I was mistaken-I think the sibling numbers on the pdf do make sense... Sorry!
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Sagittarius
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Re: feeling ripped off between the commons

Postby Sagittarius » Wed May 15, 2013 11:59 am

Hi,

Slightly off topic: what are the names of these great secondary Catholic schools in Fulham?

Thank you!

S
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stayathomemuminsw11
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Re: feeling ripped off between the commons

Postby stayathomemuminsw11 » Wed May 15, 2013 12:15 pm

Oh and I think the sibling numbers outside catchment are not as high as I thought...
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breakfastattiffanys
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Re: feeling ripped off between the commons

Postby breakfastattiffanys » Wed May 15, 2013 12:24 pm

Maxey,
It's not just a case of converting to Catholicism. You also need to attend Mass on a Sunday for 3 years to meet the criteria for the entrance for the Catholic schools; then you also need to live fairly close too and appreciate that they only have 1 x class intake per year (e.g Holy Ghost).

Sagitarrius
London Oratory (boys) and Sacred Heart (girls) are excellent Catholic schools in Fulham/Hammersmith.
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AbbevilleMummy
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Re: feeling ripped off between the commons

Postby AbbevilleMummy » Wed May 15, 2013 12:25 pm

I think the numbers in the report do work, and they are not supposed to total. i.e. there are 17 siblings living more than 500m away and 13 living more than 600m away. Therefore all 13 will be included in the 17 and there are 4 siblings who live between 500 and 600 meters away. This is why the numbers decrease.
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stayathomemuminsw11
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Re: feeling ripped off between the commons

Postby stayathomemuminsw11 » Wed May 15, 2013 12:28 pm

AbbevilleMummy wrote:I think the numbers in the report do work, and they are not supposed to total. i.e. there are 17 siblings living more than 500m away and 13 living more than 600m away. Therefore all 13 will be included in the 17 and there are 4 siblings who live between 500 and 600 meters away. This is why the numbers decrease.
Exactly. That is what I realised on re-reading!
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