The only thing that bothers me is that the girl seems to have written herself off academically before she has even taken a GCSE. If I were her parent I would be encouraging her to keep an open mind. We don't all peak academically at 15! She sounds like she is just lacking in confidence which is pretty normal at that age.

It is also the age where you are most likely to have RIDICULOUS ideas about romantic relationships. Let's allow her to be a silly 15 year old because we were all one once too.

Astro - I feel the same, once you have children some career options are temporarily closed because you just can't put in the same hours as before children.
A while back there was a discussion on NVN about whether women can have it all (i.e. career and family) and the answer was yes, but not at the same time.
I personally think this is true, and looking forward to my career taking off again once the children are a little older (by which I mean in school .
The main difference between you and a girl without any career aspirations is that, even after taking it "easy" for a while, you will still have a lot of career options open to you. The girl who became a PA only to find a husband will have a lot less choices...

I've been debating whether to reply to this at the risk of being shouted out, so please be kind.

I'm a female in my mid-30s and I'm not offended by the original post. The fact is that some girls/women don't want to be career women and would like to stay at home if possible, and yes, be supported by a partner. As long as that is their choice then I don't see the issue. What I'm saddened by at the moment is that I'm seeing so many of my highly educated, professional female friends give up work or take on 'reduced roles' at work as it isn't financially worthwhile to stay on (after the cost of childcare etc) or due to inflexibility in the workplace. I wish it wasn't this way, but for a lot of people it does seem that women with children have a very different career path to those without (men or women). And that these women end up being financially supported by their partners, so why not be honest about it?

Personally, I was a 'career woman', having worked very hard over the years, including 7 years of study. My husband works in the City and is away a lot and it all worked well when we were both on the same track. Throw in 2 kids and it gets tricky - one of us has to make sacrifices to be around, and because I want to work 4 days/week and can't travel for long periods of time any chance of career progression is closed off to me.

My friends and I talk about this and some of us have wondered - if we knew that our 'careers' would be put on hold for such a long period of time, would we have worked so hard to get where we were prior to having kids? Yes, go to university and get a job that you find interesting... but perhaps we'd rethink the PhD, the postgrad study, the extra hours on weekends. Let me be clear, none of us are complaining of sexism - my workplace has lots of senior women - but they're all childless or of an age where the kids have left home.

I have hope that one day it will change but I don't see how, and I don't know what I will tell my daughter in years to come. I grew up with everyone telling me I had the world at my feet, to study and go to university and aim high, only for the same older family members to turn around once I've had children and say 'Oh, but you're going back to work part time aren't you? Who is going to be home for the children?'. We have a long way to go.

This saddens me on so many levels: firstly, in what world should women aspire to be so lazy as to have a man support them; and secondly, poor men! Please youth of today, have dreams to be something other than financially supported.

Being a PA is not necessarily a bad idea. There are plenty of former secretaries running all sorts of organisations and being very successful. In many careers (e.g. the media) it's a great route into the profession and if you're not sure what you want to do it's a good way of sampling different types of business. However, I would say that she stands more chance of success in moving beyond a PA role in a business which doesn't have a professional structure such as the law or accountancy. If she were to start at say a TV production company or a magazine, or publishing house, she has much more chance of progressing and could end up with a very fulfilling career that she wishes to pursue beyond motherhood. Outside the traditional academic-type professions of law, medicine etc, you only need to be bright enough - having a bunch of decent interpersonal skills is far more important than a string of A stars and a glittering degree.

In terms of bagging herself a rich husband, while I agree with everyone that it shouldn't be the purpose of her career choice, it's not a bad strategy for ensuring an easier going life than she might otherwise have, assuming she can find someone who's nice and kind as well as rich (good luck with that!). As others have said however, it's highly unlikely she'll be successful going through the PA in the City route unless she fancies having an affair with someone who's a lot older and possibly already married as these seem to be the only ones who ever go for PAs (and most of those still will go for a fellow professional). She's far more likely to have success with a high flyer like a rich lawyer by pursuing her own career and trying to find him through social networks rather than work ones. However, I think most men can see through women who are only after their money so she'll have her work cut out.

When I was 15 I'm sure I said a lot of stupid things and most of them said just to p*ss my mother off!

Seb and others thinking it's acceptable and reasonable; that's what I struggle with.

Would say that Seb's lack of understanding of the world his wife and the other half of the human population from him live in and the violent discrimination we face from men is lamentable. What is the purpose of hate speech in ****** if not to show that women are seen as degenerate sex objects by most men? Where does he think discriminatory violence DV comes from and the fact that 3 out of 4 girls has experienced hate speech in school, 1 in 3 has experienced a hate attack? Really? Does he live in the same world as the rest of us?

I agree with you Lastmumstanding.

According to the last few posts I am really screwing up my daughters as I am your typical stereotype bar 2 exceptions: i am not blond and i do not live BTC (but in SW11).

My husband and I strongly believe that anyone can be a role model whether you work or not. Being a role model is about modelling behaviours and responses to the (many) challenges life throws at you I believe.
Dream big Aim high yes but it takes different paths for everyone to achieve their dreams.

All this judgmental attitudes is what is wrong.

Marriage and the concept of marriage shouldn't be taken lightly so some early discussion even at 15 might help. I wonder what this thread would look like should the dream change where the earning capacity dwindled through illness or the couple later didn't feel they were for each other anymore.


Why not shift the thinking as a family and focus on the reason why we celebrate Christmas. Not the commercial reason but the one which has us celebrating the birth of light and freedom shining in the darkness.

Keep going and thanks for making us think

Wow - I'm finding some of the characterising of local SAHMs in this thread really shocking.

I do not know a single one who has reached where she is today through the strategy proposed by this young girl. All bar one had a successful, rewarding career for many years before taking the (often difficult) decision to step away to spend some time investing in their children rather than employing someone else to share this role. Several have started up business ventures on the side, some have started new jobs part time, many give freely of their time as school Governors and charity trustees using the numerous skills and experience they gained through their working life. Every one of them is an individual I admire and respect for the sacrifices they have made and the balancing act they achieve.

Of course any 15 year old girl should want more herself, and the idea that future career success is determined by gcse's is more than nonsense; as is the idea that success = university => profession => career; but I wonder how unusual this girls aspirations are?

Perhaps a better question is why do so many girls want to be footballers & wags? Numerous studies have shown grown in this area. This is the same thing, self worth expressed through sexual currency

What role the media with its constant portrayal of gender imbalances - why try?
The media with the impossible burden of student loans - too much!

Roll models like wags & fake celebrities and harpy SAHMs?

Maybe if she had role models celebrating achievement and the nourishing of the soul that good work provides, then the endeavours of her labours wouldn't seem so fruitless?

So - for me this boils down to CHOICE and opportunities. I want my daughter to have the self esteem to believe she is worth investing in, to have an education that enables her to be the best she can be and achieve all she wants to so that she never feels she has to "settle". I want her yo find a partner with whom she is intellectually equal so that their marriage is defined by mutual respect, challenge and support. She needs to be able to fend for and support herself in this world because she cannot rely on someone else to always do it for her - we never know what life will throw at us - if she chooses to stay at home and raise her children then great! But it will be a choice made in the knowledge that it is not the only path open to her. What I find so sad in this story is that this girl does not seem to think she can or should stand on her own two feet - that is a highly risky strategy - and for adults to support her in that view is irresponsible.

I spoke about this thread to my husband who remarked like someone else above about role models, but in the sense that with so many wealthy SAHMs in this area who have pretty nice lives, if that is your female role model then is it any wonder why a 15 year old might want to get that for herself? And given most SAHMs around here have relatively high flying husbands - because let's face it, there are not many SAHMs in this neighbourhood who don't have high earning spouses - and have a nice life based on their husbands decent salary, isn't that what the 15 year old witnesses day in day out? So why would anyone think she wouldn't want that.

I'm aware that I sound old fashioned (to say the least), however having both witnessed and lived the life of 1) a high flying career working parent and 2) a SAHM with a high earning husband, I definitely think that the stress levels of a working mother who faces a daily commute, working long hours, trying to do all the admin that running a home entails on top of a 50 hour work week are far higher than those of a SAHM. Yes looking after kids is relentless but there is no commute, there's the gym, coffees, lunches, playdates etc.
It's a far nicer (easier) life ultimately. And one enjoyed by many women in this neighbourhood. The 15 year old sees this and thinks, yep, I want that life. Fair enough really.
(That said, I wouldn't wish it on anyone in their 20s, far too young imho)

Also worth noting that role models can be all sorts of people of different ages, genders and backgrounds and not just those that we might automatically associate with being a role model. Unconscious bias starts at a very early age but the sooner we know what our biases (we all have them and they are not necessarily bad) are the easiest it is to channel into some productive. Gender bias is a particular area of focus at my firm at the moment. I didn't mean to get philosophical but this is a very interesting topic!

Anecdotally...
We were at a dinner party with a family of a 15 years old girl...the mother is a SAHM who has never worked and was hoping for her daughter to find a good husband (shock horror !!) ...the father is a successful consultant at a top London hospital and was hoping for his daughter to become a doctor ... different perspectives...