Info on state secondaries: Graveney, Chestnut, Hurlingham etc Post Reply

[PForSWParent]

I would like to get some thoughts on secondary state schools in the Wandsworth area.
 
We are ruling out single-sex schools, and super-strict schools like Ashcroft.

Private schools or moving to another area are not realistic options, for a multitude of reasons.
 
Our priority is to find a reasonable balance between a school which is reasonably rigorous, but not to the point that it crushes kids' spirit with petty, capricious, unnecessary rules and punishments. Eg think of the scandals at Holland Park School or Mossbourne, with well-documented cases of emotional abuse.
 
Our impressions so far (and I stress it's just impressions):
 
Graveney: seems great if we can get in with the test (we appreciate it's not easy).
 
Chestnut in Balham: seems less academic than Graveney but still a reasonable balance.
 
Ashcroft: never ever ever. Detentions for cycling to school? Please. And the supposed "catch up" if you miss a day is bs: they simply put you in a detention room, there is no teaching. Way too much homework: the kids we know who go there have given up all their other activities, have stopped reading, that's really extreme.
 
Hurlingham Academy in Fulham: Impressions were good. Seemed a reasonable balance. Some doubts about the school not having sixth form.
 
Saint Cecilia: we know many families whose children are happy there. But it seems one of the least academic, and with very little homework (the opposite problem to Ashcroft)
 
Harris Wimbledon: very mixed feedback. Some say it's a very good and very academic school, some say it's far too strict.
 
Harris Battersea: very mixed feedback, but in the opposite sense to Harris Wimbledon: some say it's good, some say it's not academic enough.
 
Southfields Academy: terrible impressions. The kids seemed feral. It seemed the least academic of the whole list.
 
When sharing your thoughts, please:

• respect our preferences. If Ashcroft or a single-sex works well for your kids, I am very happy for you, but don't try to convince me to send my kids there. If someone asks for a Chinese restaurant you don't tell them that Indian food is better
  
• please try to take into account not just your personal experience, but how someone else's experience might differ. Eg our kids are reasonably happy at their primary, but I'll be the first to say it's one of those "my way or the highway" type of schools, and it's not a good choice for anyone with any kind of special needs
  

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts! Thanks a lot!

[PForSWParent]

PS I appreciate that, on one hand, many families have been leaving London, many primary schools have been closing all over London, and this will have an effect on secondary numbers, too, while on the other hand the VAT on private schools is likely to mean more students going to state rather than private schools.
If the two effects will offset each other is anyone's guess.

[SWtastic]

I'm interested to know your sources of information for each school but some of the impressions appear to be way off the mark so you may actually be discounting good options e.g.

I was concerned about Ashcroft being too strict but my son absolutely thrived there and, in reality, it is no more strict than most other schools.  It's very business-like but provides a very good education.  I don't recognise the excessive homework or the absence of reading impressions you have. Neither are our experience.  If you are after an academic school then Ashcroft would be top of the list out of those you mention.

I also have experience of Southfields Academy and again, do not recognise your description - have you toured the school or attended an open event?  I was very impressed when I did.  The pastoral care appears to be excellent, something that I didn't see in many schools, and the low turnover of staff is another strong indicator that it is a good school.  Check the school's progress score - it's above Chestnut Grove's.

None of the schools are without their issues and all are experiencing behavioural issues that are greater than pre-Covid.  Any who claim there is no bullying will not be telling the truth.  Visit each one with an open mind.

[MummE]

You've got quite a wide geographical area you're covering there, so you might need to check that your child could feasibly get in to these schools from where you live? There are other mixed state schools in the area that you've not mentioned, like Ark Putney, St John Bosco, Bolingbroke, - have you discounted those already? Definitely worth looking at admissions policies to narrow down what's realistic and then touring those that are - hearsay can be valuable but not a patch on seeing the real thing.

[PForSWParent]

@SWtastic, like I said, if you are happy about Ashcroft I am very happy for you, but the question is not whether Ashcroft is a good school - the question is: please give me feedback and help me choose based on my criteria, which I understand are subjective and which I understand not everyone will agree with.

FWIW I am all about balance. Draconian schools like  Mossbourne and Holland Park can hide deeper problems (see the scandals of rampant emotional abuse uncovered) and can cause long-lasting psychological scars. In my view, the risk of the same happening at Ashcroft is simply too high for me.
But schools with no discipline are environments which are not conducive to learning.
Again, it's all about a reasonable balance.

To be clear, I don't want to convince anyone of anything. If you are happy there, I am happy for you. I am simply explaining my criteria - which, again, I appreciate are subjective and won't be shared by everyone.

As for Southfields, the behaviour I witnessed at the open day was the worst of all the schools visited.
Can you please elaborate on what you know about it? It's probably the only school where I don't know any family who sent their kids there, so any feedback would be more than welcome.

[PForSWParent]

@Mumme,

we have done some homework on admission distances.

Ark is too far for us and a bit of a logistical nightmare to get to.

Bollingbroke is very hard to get into unless you come from a feeder school.

Bosco is very hard to get into for non-religious families. St Cecilia is easier

Graveney: we know we'd only get it if our kid does well in the Wandsworth test

Chestnut: if she gets in the top band of the Wanndsworth test, then our chances are good as the max distance for the top band is always greater. Plus there are specialist places for art and languages

Hurlingham: should be able to get in, but catchment might tighten after they got their outstanding

Harris Wimbledon: hit or miss: some years she might have got in, some other years not

Harris Battersea: not oversubscribed (which some might see as a potential red flag in itself, not sure)

[supergirl]

I have to say but the way you’re phrasing your request sounds very entitled to me.
You re asking strangers on the internet to give you their opinions on schools but only of it is in the format that you have deemed acceptable.

Or you are trying to get the internet to do your own research for a master or an article.

Whatever it is, for me you re very rude.

[PForSWParent]

@supergirl , What on earth are you saying, and why?  ​​​​​​​

I have expressed my preferences (no single-sex schools, no schools like Ashcroft Mossbourne Holland Park etc).
I then asked for opinions and feedback on the other schools.

What on earth would be rude about that??? 

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, nor am I trying to get into heated debates on the merits or demerits of single-sex schools nor of Ashcroft.

My point is a much more banal and humble: if those work for you great, I'm very happy for you, but they don't work for us, so, with that in mind, what can you tell me about the other schools?

Again: what on earth would be rude or entitled about this???

If someone asks you where to find a good Chinese restaurant, are you the kind of person who tries to convince them that, actually, they should eat Indian and not Chinese?

[Thesunisout]

*Supergirl, I couldn't agree with you more. I read it the other day and thought wow... And didn't bother responding...

"When sharing your thoughts, please respect our preferences.... If xxx worked for you, I'm happy for you but don't trying to convince me to xxx... please try to take into account not just your personal experience, but how someone else's experience might differ."

Incredibly bossy, entitled and rude. This is something I would send as a brief to my team at work. As a work brief. If you don't see it, you might have a problem.

You know that people here don't actually have to comment and advise? It's their good will and generosity if they do. Plus, if they want to correct your perception of a certain school they are free to do it and should be thanked and welcomed to do it.

My gut feeling is that you will probably be one of these parents who has a problem with any school they end up in

[PForSWParent]

@thesunisout There is nothing entitled nor rude about stating one's preferences.

For the record, I stated them because, quite often when I dared mention that single sex schools or schools like Micaela - Mossbourne - Holland Park - Ashcroft etc wouldn't work for us, many people did not respect this opinion, but felt entitled to "correct" it and to educate us on why we are wrong and they are right.

Again: if someone asks for a Chinese restaurant, do you tell them that Indian is better?
if someone asks for a beach resort, do you tell them they should go to the mountains??

My gut feeling is that you will probably be one of these parents who has a problem with any school they end up in
I have certain preferences, I respect those who have other preferences, and you interpret this as me being the kind of difficult person who'd complain anywhere?? There's a lot that could be said about this thought process, but I trust there's no need to say it out loud.

I thought this was the kind of forum where someone could state their preferences and still have a civilised discussion to share a diverse range of feedback. I must have been wrong - apologies for having wasted your precious time. 


 

[Thesunisout]

I think you might find that the reason other people reacted like this to you talking about those schools is the way you talk about it. Perhaps people did not "disrespect your opinion" but felt a bit offended and felt that you were disrespecting the schools or the concept of some schools (ie. single sex etc). The way you talk about some schools in your post in incredibly harsh. They "crush kids' spirit with petty capricious unnecessary punishments" and talking about emotional abuse mentioning two schools in particular. There is really no need for it. It feels nasty and unnecessary.

You could have just said - we don't want single sex schools and have already discarded Ashcroft etc so interested to hear feedback on the alternatives. You would have had a very different response. It really is a lovely forum of very helpful parents

[PForSWParent]

I didn't say anything bad about single-sex, simply that it's not for us.

As for the Mossbourne Holland Park etc, I simply reported the factual evidence that there have been cases of emotional abuse. That's a fact.

On Holland Park:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61325597

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... nvironment

On Mossbourne: 
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... mossbourne

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czjd383z9lyo

On Ashcroft, it is also a fact that they give detentions to students caught cycling to school:


Just like it is a fact that, if you miss a day at Ashcroft, there is no actual catch up - they just lock you in a room.


These are facts.
The opinion is that I think there is a very high risk that Ashcroft may be a similar kind of environment,  conducive to the emotional abuse which has been well documented (again:  facts, not opinions) at Mossbourne and Holland Park.

I could have been less direct, true.
But then I am not sure it is appropriate to be mild and indirect when we talk about state-funded schools which inflict emotional abuse on children and remain practically unaccountable to anyone.

For the record, the reason why I started off so direct and defensive is that, in my limited experience, many very opinionated parents do not  accept that Ashcroft may not be for us, and make it their life's mission to convince me that they are right and I am wrong. Happened loads of times. I was simply keen on avoiding that.

[Bea123]

Why don't you just disregard the comments you don't care for and focus on the ones you do, rather than dictate what people should and shouldn't say? Would be easier and nicer. No need for this drama

[Spenner]

This seems to have got derailed. In my experience there are no bad schools in your list - we know kids who are very happy in all of the schools you’ve listed, even the ones you rejected. Having said that your impression is very important and if you didn’t warm to a school that will affect your opinion of whether your child would thrive there. Southfields is fantastic for sport, Chestnut Grove is a highly creative learning environment, Ashcroft is good for STEM, Graveney is academic (but look at sixth form results too; Chestnut Grove is doing very well indeed). The thing with state schools is that they’re what you make of them. If you are academic, in London anyway, you’ll thrive academically. It’s very stressful not being able to pick and you might have to keep an open mind about the offers you get but I don’t know many people who have moved schools at all in the last few years.

[Prettyinpink]

Could someone please verify that, if a child is sick for one day and misses school, they get locked and isolated in a room for a day... I find it very hard to believe and Ashcroft is one of the schools we are considering so it's very worrying. Could an actual parent confirm that this claim is accurate please? It sounds abusive to me